Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Lodge Ability Benchmarks

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Lodge Ability Benchmarks

    So I'm trying to tease out some Lodge conversions from 1e to 2e, as well as create some Lodges of my own. One thing that I find useful when creating my own content is figuring out what patterns and benchmarks are already in place for existing material. For Lodges specifically, I'm most focused on figuring this out for the Blessing and the Sacred Hunt. The Aspiration and the Ban I think I have a better handle on. Writing it out helps, so partial this thread is to help me collect my thoughts, but if anyone has something to add, feel free to chip in.

    Here's what I've noticed.

    Blessing: 4 of the 6 blessings (I'm counting The Mourners in that count) interact with Willpower in some way. Gaining the Rote Quality on specific types of rolls, making bonuses last longer, or adding 5 dice instead of 3 are examples of additional effects when adding Willpower, while purging tilts is an example of an alternate use of Willpower. Dropping the number of success required from 5 to 3 is a fairly easy non-Willpower benchmark (plus regaining some Essence in a specific condition related to the roll). I have a tougher time teasing a benchmark out of the Lodge of Apollo, but I guess that could be reducing penalties when your actions are aligned with one of a prey's touchstones.

    The Hunt: Okay, getting the obvious out of the way. These vary hugely and are based primarily on the refined type of prey the Lodge hunts. The Sacred Hunt offers a way to identify the prey, as well as a way to fight them. The effects are powerful and vary greatly because different prey require different tactics. The downside of that is that I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around a unifying set of benchmarks. The upshot is that there's almost no way you can go wrong as long as it works conceptually.

    Any thoughts?


    CofD booklists:
    Beast I Changeling | Geist l Hunter l Mage | Mummy | Promethean | Vampire

  • #2
    I suspect the totem usually has a big sway on the power levels you're looking for. More powerful the totem, more powerful the blessing and sacred hunt benefit.

    The trick is once you get to things like Apollo, which may not even be a spirit, and thus may work off different levels when factoring what's 'powerful.'

    Originally posted by Second Chances View Post
    The downside of that is that I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around a unifying set of benchmarks. The upshot is that there's almost no way you can go wrong as long as it works conceptually.

    Any thoughts?
    This is probably my favorite part of the game, because while it makes it tricky to build powers, considering various 'levels' of power, you can really throw limitations out the window, for the most part.

    But if you are concerned about balance, providing the totem:lodgepower ratio is correct, you can use the lodge's ban to help even the scales. Or like Apollo's sacred hunt benefit you have restrictions like having used five Facets during a hunt.
    Last edited by nofather; 01-11-2018, 01:49 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by nofather View Post
      I suspect the totem usually has a big sway on the power levels you're looking for. More powerful the totem, more powerful the blessing and sacred hunt benefit.

      The trick is once you get to things like Apollo, which may not even be a spirit, and thus may work off different levels when factoring what's 'powerful.'



      This is probably my favorite part of the game, because while it makes it tricky to build powers, considering various 'levels' of power, you can really throw limitations out the window, for the most part.

      But if you are concerned about balance, providing the totem:lodgepower ratio is correct, you can use the lodge's ban to help even the scales. Or like Apollo's sacred hunt benefit you have restrictions like having used five Facets during a hunt.
      Yeah, it's definitely a feature more than a bug. I'm not really looking for balance per say. It's more about trying to figure out what is an appropriate mechanical chassis to build off of. Hence why I keyed in on Willpower for the blessing, it is a repeating mechanical motif. I'm actually more concerned about lowballing the Hunt and making something that isn't mechanically interesting enough rather than making something too powerful.


      CofD booklists:
      Beast I Changeling | Geist l Hunter l Mage | Mummy | Promethean | Vampire

      Comment


      • #4
        Oh I see. I think?

        It might be because Essence is supposed to be for Gifts and Facets (or at least, you're not supposed to use Willpower for them), so they lean more on Willpower, and the Blessing being more a natural extension of the werewolf now that it is part of a lodge. It seems like the kind of result you might get for the totem using Strengthen on you, related to what their focus is on. Garm Strengthens Werewolf-slaying, the Smoke-Drinker cars and vehicular combat, Ravening Wolf a sort of cleansing or purity (though this seems tacked on to werewolf's healing, maybe due to Isim-Ur being a werewolf god), Apollo corrupting others, Zakinsuzi scaring people (and a bonus for scaring then killing them).

        EDIT: Note that there are Secrets to the lodges, which we haven't seen except in the case of the Mourners, and there's at least one extra ability of that lodge.

        Originally posted by Acrozatarim View Post
        If another werewolf eats any of a Mourner's flesh - such as devouring a mouthful during combat in order to cause a grievous wound - they establish an occult link that the Mourner can sense and exploit. Once per day, when the Mourner would be subjected to a Tilt, Condition, or supernatural curse or malison in another form, the Mourner can spend 1 Willpower point to shunt it to the connected werewolf instead regardless of distance. The link remains for up to a week.
        It's also powered by Willpower. If you link it to an Influence, like Strengthen to the Blessing, you would probably put it under Control. Maybe Manipulate, since it is just shifting an existing Condition.
        Last edited by nofather; 01-11-2018, 03:39 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by nofather View Post

          EDIT: Note that there are Secrets to the lodges, which we haven't seen except in the case of the Mourners, and there's at least one extra ability of that lodge.

          It's also powered by Willpower. If you link it to an Influence, like Strengthen to the Blessing, you would probably put it under Control. Maybe Manipulate, since it is just shifting an existing Condition.
          Yeah, I don't think there's much point in trying to benchmark the Secrets until we get more examples of them. Personally, I've mentally tagged them as "weird occult shit that can cause an interesting story" since I have no idea where I would start with that vomiting up a spirit power. That is a good insight into how the quoted secret is basically an extension of the blessing though!

          Okay, so if I were to write up the Lodge of Final Winter, here's a draft of the benefits I'd give them.

          Prey: Creatures that cause nightmares.
          Blessing: Exceptional success when interpreting dreams on 3 instead of 5. Regain 1 Essence when your interpretation of a dream prophecy causes a breaking point.
          Hunt: While in Siskur-Dah, the Werewolf can shift itself into dreams as if it was Reaching into the Shadow.


          CofD booklists:
          Beast I Changeling | Geist l Hunter l Mage | Mummy | Promethean | Vampire

          Comment


          • #6
            I'd probably narrow the prey down to be more specific, it looks more like you're hunting dream creatures than things that cause nightmares (which could be werewolves and clowns and, apparently, this woman I know). I figure this is based on the existing Lodge of Final Winter, so I'm coming from that angle.

            I would probably avoid the shifting into dreams, maybe make it a rite, but that's just because I have no mechanics for oneiromancy in second edition. If you're ready to put werewolves in dreams dealing with dreams then it seems thematically appropriate, though I'll note that you haven't left a way for the werewolves to shift 'out' of dreams. Based on my first edition experiences with oneiromancy, the Blessing seems like it's good.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by nofather View Post
              I'd probably narrow the prey down to be more specific, it looks more like you're hunting dream creatures than things that cause nightmares (which could be werewolves and clowns and, apparently, this woman I know). I figure this is based on the existing Lodge of Final Winter, so I'm coming from that angle.

              I would probably avoid the shifting into dreams, maybe make it a rite, but that's just because I have no mechanics for oneiromancy in second edition. If you're ready to put werewolves in dreams dealing with dreams then it seems thematically appropriate, though I'll note that you haven't left a way for the werewolves to shift 'out' of dreams. Based on my first edition experiences with oneiromancy, the Blessing seems like it's good.
              Well, Reaching into the Shadow is 10-Harmony roll and Reaching back to the mortal is a straight Humanity roll. I figured the dream mechanic would would be the same. I'm cool with Storyteller fiat for how dreams work. I don't think the way the Lodge interacts with them has to be consistent (on the surface at least) with Mages, Changelings, or Beasts if those supernaturals aren't present, so I'd just adapt the narrative to allow for the fact that the PCs were now in a dream.

              I'll start a proper writeup, although I may stick it in a different thread.


              CofD booklists:
              Beast I Changeling | Geist l Hunter l Mage | Mummy | Promethean | Vampire

              Comment


              • #8
                Second Chances A question about your Lodge write-up. How does your Hunt benefit interact with the Dream Hunter Facet from Gibbous Moon Gifts?


                Find my Homebrew Fangs of Mara 2ed update Here

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Teatime View Post
                  Second Chances A question about your Lodge write-up. How does your Hunt benefit interact with the Dream Hunter Facet from Gibbous Moon Gifts?
                  That is an idea I hadn't thought of! I'll noodle on it.


                  CofD booklists:
                  Beast I Changeling | Geist l Hunter l Mage | Mummy | Promethean | Vampire

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    At some point when I have some free time and energy, I'll try and weigh in on this from the approach that I took when constructing the new Lodge rules, and the sorts of things I had in mind re power levels etc.


                    - Chris Allen
                    Freelance Writer, Deviant: the Renegade / The Pack / Dark Eras / Werewolf: the Forsaken 2nd Edition / Idigam Anthology / Fallen World Chronicle / Trinity Aeon

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Acrozatarim View Post
                      At some point when I have some free time and energy, I'll try and weigh in on this from the approach that I took when constructing the new Lodge rules, and the sorts of things I had in mind re power levels etc.
                      Yay! Thank you!


                      CofD booklists:
                      Beast I Changeling | Geist l Hunter l Mage | Mummy | Promethean | Vampire

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X