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Forsaken February - Heralds of the Firstborn

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  • Originally posted by Malus View Post
    Risking your neck unduly with methods that aren't proved, honed and tested doesn't strikes me as either Cunning or Wise.
    Well it's just harder, not necessarily stupid. Werewolves have beaten Pure without fetish weapons before, and so forth. That said, it's entirely possible it could lead to death, but like lunes and renown sometimes risk is necessary for growth.

    Sure, spirits will see and notice their area of influence, but given those would encourage the behavior, they're probably banned from divulging it on the first place. I mean society at large.
    I still don't think the Knight's standard pop ups are more linked to a public spectacle any more than a private one. The Cunning thing doesn't seem to even require it to have been involved with you before. Maybe the protecting the children thing would be more publicly known but I imagine it would be represented by something spiritual, or mechanically like a Condition or Merit, rather than the Knight plunking down in their bedroom until they're grown.

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    • Originally posted by nofather View Post
      I still don't think the Knight's standard pop ups are more linked to a public spectacle any more than a private one. The Cunning thing doesn't seem to even require it to have been involved with you before. Maybe the protecting the children thing would be more publicly known but I imagine it would be represented by something spiritual, or mechanically like a Condition or Merit, rather than the Knight plunking down in their bedroom until they're grown.
      You keep missing my point.

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      • Originally posted by Malus View Post
        Risking your neck unduly with methods that aren't proved, honed and tested doesn't strikes me as either Cunning or Wise.
        It is, however, well within spec for things that an Honorable werewolf might do in the proper context. Last month Errol described Honor as "playing Tetris with the world," and the kind of trickster-crucible role that the Knight fills serves a similar function in that its challenges stand to shift the meaning of the werewolf's accomplishment within a larger context.


        Resident Sanguinary Analyst
        Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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        • Originally posted by Satchel View Post
          It is, however, well within spec for things that an Honorable werewolf might do in the proper context. Last month Errol described Honor as "playing Tetris with the world," and the kind of trickster-crucible role that the Knight fills serves a similar function in that its challenges stand to shift the meaning of the werewolf's accomplishment within a larger context.
          Which is a rather simplistic view on it. Honor is about taking the harder road because you have a moral obligation to do so, and at the pinnacle of it is about becoming an embodiment of karmic justice, just like the Great Wolf was.

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          • Ich think you are seeing the Renowns a bit to seperately here. The Knight is not just cunning or just wise. It is as cunning as it can be while STILL beeing honorable. It is still an aspect of Winter Wolf and therefore obliged to its general theme, but it is at the boundary of that theme probably challenging Winter Wolfs sense of Honor itself. As mentioned the Knight will never be unfair or give you a task which is not solvable at all. But it challenges you to go the extra mile to increase your Cunning and Honor at the same time.

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            • Originally posted by HardcoreHannes View Post
              Ich think you are seeing the Renowns a bit to seperately here. The Knight is not just cunning or just wise. It is as cunning as it can be while STILL beeing honorable. It is still an aspect of Winter Wolf and therefore obliged to its general theme, but it is at the boundary of that theme probably challenging Winter Wolfs sense of Honor itself. As mentioned the Knight will never be unfair or give you a task which is not solvable at all. But it challenges you to go the extra mile to increase your Cunning and Honor at the same time.
              And I already mentioned why it works better as an Honorable aspect of Sagrim-Ur than as a Cunning one of Winter Wolf.

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              • Originally posted by Malus View Post

                And I already mentioned why it works better as an Honorable aspect of Sagrim-Ur than as a Cunning one of Winter Wolf.
                Given Sagrim's Ban, I would think that Avatar would be more focused on the area, than individual Uratha.


                Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
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                • Plus it has nothing to do with anything Red Wolf represents.

                  It's a pretty clear example of a personification of evasion and strength-through-challenge.

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                  • ​Just for Malus , a bonus extra Winter Wolf royal avatar of a more conventional bent. I don't have the spare time or energy to do a full write-up for this right now, so readers will have to figure the details out for themselves - but here's the stat block.

                    ​The requested Red Wolf royal avatar might be along later tonight if I still have any brains left after my commitments for the evening.

                    The Monarch Wreathed In Calamity
                    Rank 5 Spirit of Revelation and Calamity
                    Power 14 Finesse 11 Resistance 15
                    Willpower 10 Essence 50 Initiative 26 Defence 15 Corpus 30
                    Ban:
                    The Monarch Wreathed In Calamity cannot use any Manifestations in a location that is not suffering the Extreme Cold, Extreme Heat, Earthquake or Heavy Winds Environmental Tilts.
                    Bane: ​Stone from the bed of a river that has never flooded nor dried out.
                    Influences:
                    Fire 3, Ice 3
                    Manifestations:
                    Twilight Form, Fetter, Gauntlet Breach, Materialize, Possess, Claim
                    Numina:
                    Awe, Blast, Disastrous Form*, Drain, Liarbane*, Stalwart, To The Foundations*, Winnow*
                    New Numen - Disastrous Form: The Monarch Wreathed In Calamity is unaffected by the Extreme Cold, Extreme Heat, Earthquake and Heavy Winds Environmental Tilts and, furthermore, increases the intensity of such Tilts in any scene within which it is present by one level.
                    New Numen - Liarbane:​ Against prey who have lied in the past week in such a way that has caused harm to their pack, their family or groups who are represented by their Allies merits, the Monarch's numen are free to activate.
                    New Numen - To The Foundations: By spending 1 Essence, the Monarch Wreathed In Calamity's attacks will ignore up to 5 points of objects' Durability for the remainder of the scene. Any structure or item destroyed in this way cannot be repaired or rebuilt for as long as the extreme Environmental Tilt remains in effect.
                    New Numen - Winnow: By spending 1 Essence, the Monarch can activate this Numen to curse a target, resisted by their Resolve. If the curse is effective then, for the next day, any failure on a dice pool that is suffering a penalty due to natural circumstances (such as natural environmental effects - not those enhanced by the Monarch - hunger, darkness, wound penalties, etc) is automatically converted to a Dramatic failure. If the penalty is negated or removed, then the failure will not be converted in this way. A character who survives the full period of the curse despite being exposed to significant hardship or danger in the process gains an additional Beat and the Symbolic Focus Condition.


                    - Chris Allen, Freelance Writer: Forsaken & Awakening 2nd Edition / The Pack / Dark Eras 1 & 2 / The Contagion Chronicle / Idigam Anthology / Night Horrors: Nameless & Accursed and Shunned by the Moon / Trinity Aeon / Aeon Aexpansion / And more besides...

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                    • Originally posted by Malus View Post

                      Which is a rather simplistic view on it. Honor is about taking the harder road because you have a moral obligation to do so, and at the pinnacle of it is about becoming an embodiment of karmic justice, just like the Great Wolf was.
                      It's fine if you disagree with me, though "simplistic" is a weird way of putting it. But, okay. Let me offer some complexity.

                      A big part of my description comes from the book description of Elodoth chargen asking what a given character's particular spin on the Oath is. In other words, it's agreeing that you've got a moral obligation, but they're also asking what that moral obligation even is. Why is a given demand a moral obligation, exactly? Why is it important to forge a protectorate with the local Pure, rather than running them off, for instance? When is it better to walk away from your pack, rather than struggling to work together against your differences? Do you justify your answers based on the needs of survival? On precedent from stories passed down by oral tradition? On the principle of keeping the peace? On shared ties of marriage crossing pack, or even Urdaga-Anshega, boundaries?

                      That's what I mean by playing Tetris with the world. The world is composed of ill-fitting pieces that don't mesh cleanly, but if you can find the right mix and arrange them along space and time just right, you can achieve Results™. The essential job of an Elodoth is to do that with a pack. The aspirational ideas of the Iminir are around this. I like the Knight of Crossroads because it's basically doing this with a Storm Lord's worldview.

                      Because it's worth asking why you believe why you believe. If you don't know, that's a weakness.


                      I call the Integrity-analogue the "subjective stat".
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                      • Originally posted by Errol216 View Post
                        A big part of my description comes from the book description of Elodoth chargen asking what a given character's particular spin on the Oath is. In other words, it's agreeing that you've got a moral obligation, but they're also asking what that moral obligation even is. Why is a given demand a moral obligation, exactly? Why is it important to forge a protectorate with the local Pure, rather than running them off, for instance? When is it better to walk away from your pack, rather than struggling to work together against your differences? Do you justify your answers based on the needs of survival? On precedent from stories passed down by oral tradition? On the principle of keeping the peace? On shared ties of marriage crossing pack, or even Urdaga-Anshega, boundaries?
                        There's no moral imperative for Storm Lords to build protectorates, specially one which includes the murderous Anshega. There's no moral imperative for Storm Lords to even join a pack. Uratha are supernaturally powered predators - there's no sense in striving for a pacifist world-view with them. Also, there's no moral imperative for Storm Lords to achieve vainglory either. The only real moral imperative Storm Lords have? Is the Oath of the Moon, which every inductee, specially the failed ones swear even before their mettle is tested.

                        Edit: Basically you're equating politics to Honor, yet Honor is so, so much more.
                        Last edited by Malus; 03-10-2018, 02:14 AM.

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                        • First, thanks for Acrozatarim for posting another Winter Wolf royal avatar out of his own free will. Everyone, raise a toast for Acrozatarim!

                          *drinks*

                          ..Anyway, if it is up to the readers to figure the Monarch's story, than it is a riddle- and boy, I do love riddles. Let's start :P

                          The Monarch is clearly an aspect of Winter Wolf's role at destroying the world- it is a spirit of Calamity, after all. However, looking at its Ban and Bane, it seems to be less about causing such calamities than exploit them (it can only Manifest during natural disasters, especially those bound by heat and cold). The way it is tied to both ice and fire seems to give it a dual nature of some kind- reminds me of Norse mythology, together with the biblical plague of hail (it had the whole "fire trapped inside the ice" thing going on). Anyway, it feels like the Monarch is the herald of cataclysm, which follows the path of destruction left by Winter Wolf's destructive power over nature. Yet, it is not only a spirit of Calamity- it is a spirit of Revelation too. As it shows up in the middle of a natural disaster, it makes sense that it tries to teach something through the event. Perhaps it tests those in the middle of the disaster, one way or another? It is hard for me to believe that Winter Wolf would try to save those trapped in its fury, as its whole shtick is that people have to work by themselves around their weakness. So maybe the Revelation of Calamities is tho show just how weak people (and People) are before nature? You know, teaching them that they can't contain nature's fury, and that they can only bow before the mighty cataclysms brought by Winter Wolf. That would give an interesting twist to its role as "Monarch". An interesting aspect of it is its hate toward liars- maybe something like the concept of "you decorate yourself in palaces of your own lies, I will strip you of them with fire and storm and show you how far is the fall from your false heaven. Go and see how all are equal before nature's wrath".

                          In short, from what I can gather, the Monarch is Winter Wolf's aspect which separates truth from lies using calamity, for those who are truly strong would survive nature's wrath, and those who lie to themselves and others would die out as nothing more than a butterfly trapped in a tornado. At least, that's what I think.


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                          • In going with the herald idea of disaster idea, keep in mind that the Storm Lords believe in Abni-Gur, the crucible of becoming. Where a werewolf who masters all their Renown and becomes one with their Harmony will one day ascend to become the new Father Wolf, Lord of the Border Marches. Such an event, if tied in with the rebirth of Pangaea, would likely destroy the world as we know it. In his own birth story, Winter Wolf was tied to an ending of the world, as well.

                            While it likely gets to come out during natural disasters or harsh weather events, he might be getting ready for a next ice age to test the Uratha (and the rest of the world) when/if they return to claim their heritage.

                            Either way those Numen are going to get some use.

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                            • The Knight seems to give Winter Wolf's answer to the paladin problem, on top of a role is preventing stagnation. Yes, you may win many an honorable duel with your storied personal klaive, but forsake it for this duel, to prove it is you, and not the weapon, that wins the battle in the end. Questioning your wording of Honor, to get back to the spirit of it.

                              The Monarch seems like a less obvious battle avatar, given the requirements to appear, but something makes me feel like they'd administer trials of endurance, just by being in the area. I imagine there are Storm Lords who might seek out natural disasters to endure them, riding out the greatest of storms to prove themselves worthy. And the most glorious destruction would obviously be that being overseen by the Monarch.


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                              • Draft of the Red Wolf royal avatars is done and will hopefully be along soon!


                                - Chris Allen, Freelance Writer: Forsaken & Awakening 2nd Edition / The Pack / Dark Eras 1 & 2 / The Contagion Chronicle / Idigam Anthology / Night Horrors: Nameless & Accursed and Shunned by the Moon / Trinity Aeon / Aeon Aexpansion / And more besides...

                                ​Like my work? Feel like helping me stay supplied with tea? Check out my Patreon

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