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Question about the merit Trained observer.

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  • Question about the merit Trained observer.

    The merit trained observer gives the ability to be more skilled at finding "important things". It says that when you make a perception check (usually Wits + Composure), you gain the 8-again ability on the rolls.

    The question was asked by a private eye. "If I gain the 8-again on basic perception roll, and I am better at finding important things... can this 8-again be used when I do an investigate roll wich require my wits/perception, to investigate a crime scene or something similar ?... (not speaking obviously about solving a riddle wich is a intelligence + investigation roll or something else).

    What is your point of view on that ?

  • #2
    The 1e World of Darkness Rulebook offers some guidelines in its description of the Investigation Skill on how its use differs from perception tasks. I'd apply those guidelines to decide whether a roll is passive perception or an active searching, and in the latter case, I probably wouldn't apply the full effects of the Merit. Even then, though, a +1 circumstantial bonus die seems reasonable to me if the character's keen sense for details could still help out in the action.


    • #3
      Investigation is explicitly not the same as a Perception roll.

      SWTOR Referal:


      • #4
        I do not allow it to transfer over either. A die bonus seems acceptable, but as Gallus pointed out those two things are very different.


        • #5
          For me, the “usually” is a key word, indicating that a “perception check” (which is notably not a mechanical term in CofD, but a plain-English phrase) is usually, but not always, handled with a Wits + Composure Attribute Task. So I allow Trained Observer to benefit any roll based on sensory perception, not just Wits + Composure.

          Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.


          • #6
            Exactly my view Charlaquin. "Usually" speak for itself. And in my question, I was specificaly speaking about investigation roll that relied on perception. True... both are not the same. One is related purely to the senses, and one partly to the senses, and partly to some sort of analytical skills, based on training and knowledge. And some of that training, relies on your capacity to observe, wich is a sense. This edition is quite open sometimes for interpretation.

            This is easier to rule however than the Meditative mind wich give a bonus of +3 to any resolve+composure rolls during the following day because you have steeled your fondation. Does this happens at every rolls ? Only one time ? Since it implies the words "Steeling your fondation", does it means its only for breaking points ? Man... hate those things...


            • #7
              Perhaps it would be useful to note a character who would have and use the merit?

              A man walks into 221B Baker Street, Sherlock Holmes lights his pipe while rolling Wits+Perception, taking 8-again as a Trained Observer to note immediate details such as ink on the cuffs and the type of mud on his boots. (Note he's probably throwing 9-10 dice on this, as well.)

              During the interview, Holmes rolls Investigation+ to tease out clues, depending on tactic used he'll probably rely on Wits. He may go to the scene and use Intelligence, or even indulge in contemplation for that roll, piecing things together. Or, he could just show up, glance around with a Perception check, and get enough out of that and his Merit to provide the clues. If he needs to confront others he'll use Presence or Manipulation+Investigation, or Intimidation depending on approach. Maybe Empathy.

              This help?