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[2E] Uratha and languages

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  • wyrdhamster
    started a topic [2E] Uratha and languages

    [2E] Uratha and languages

    Is there some power for Uratha - like Gift or Rite - to understand other languages they did not before? Or should they pact with some spirit for this boon? Maybe Spirit of Speech or Knowledge?

    You can always can communicate with foreign Uratha by using First Tongue. But what about Vikings raiders that comes to the new places - Like how they can communicate with humans form Finns, Khazars or Slavs people - and not be attacked on sight? Learning their language in normal way will takes weeks at least...

  • Tessie
    replied
    I don't see what's weird about it. Pack Rites aren't effects that affect the whole Pack; they're effects that anyone in the Pack may participate in.
    If someone didn't participate in a Rite that grants an effect to the participants, then that person is excluded from the effect. Depending on the context that may be an insult towards the non-participating member (especially if it's one of the uratha) or it might just be that they simply were unavailable, in which case tough luck.

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  • wyrdhamster
    replied
    Thinking about real game scenario where one of packmember was not partaking in Shared Tongue Rite, should he have benefits of it also? Stupid Loserman seems to imply packmember should not, simply on mechanics how Pack Rites generally works. On the other hand, would it be something weird when, for example, only part of pack members start to speak fluently in Greek or First Tongue - and other that did not participate, do not?

    Originally posted by Stupid Loserman View Post
    No. The passage in the book you quote is not saying that a Pack Rite's benefits spread across all pack members no matter where they are in the world. It's saying that non-Uratha packmates (humans, Wolf-Blooded, any local weirdos) also benefit when they participate in a Pack Rite, unlike Wolf Rites, whose benefits are only conferred to Uratha participants.

    You could write a homebrew rite whose effects are conferred even to non-participants, as a weird exception case. But it'd be weird and you usually shouldn't, because Rites are established as being communal in nature. You don't sit out a Rite. Rites are inclusive.
    Last edited by wyrdhamster; 03-11-2020, 03:40 AM.

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  • wyrdhamster
    replied
    Pondering on Harmony Breaking Points of using Fetish - it looks like it would be Breaking Point toward Spirit, as it is most the same as this from WtF 2E corebook:

    Eating human or wolf flesh for Essence (–3)

    Just change 'for Essence' into 'to get Fetish effect' and it's perfect fit.

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  • wyrdhamster
    replied
    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
    Fetish – Tongue Splitter (••)
    This knife is splitting tongues – both physically and metaphorically. It’s often used in infiltration of foreign territory, by various werewolves.
    Effect: Tongue Splitter let’s a user with Skin Thief Facet to cut a tongue of his victim with Splitter and then eat it. This marks a user to use all languages victim knew for one full lunar month.
    About using of Tongue Splitter - Would it be Harmony Breaking Point? If yes, on what side? It's not killing of the victim. It clearly would be Integrity Breaking Point on level of 'Causing visible serious injury to a person', so -2 penalty? Or maybe -3 as Torture one?

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  • Tessie
    replied
    Only Mass Create can inherently create something permanently. Instead of creating [Rank] examples you can choose to create just one example and make it permanent.
    You can also increase the duration to permanent by "splitting" dots over the Influence effect and Influence Duration. Since it requires four dots for the duration only Influence 5+ can use that, and Influence 5 can only increase the duration to permanent on Strengthen.

    Technically you'd be able to temporarily create a whole new language using Create instead of Mass Create, but it makes little sense for it to not be permanent so I specified it on Mass Create.

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  • Master Aquatosic
    replied
    Is 4 dots permanent or temporary?

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  • Tessie
    replied
    Originally posted by Master Aquatosic View Post
    On that note, I'd rule that the Strengthening [LANGUAGE] Influence could provide a discount on obtaining that language as a merit in either XP or downtime needed to learn
    Definitely downtime. XP discounts are a bit more touchy (as in, not all tables wants to use them) and even more so when Language and Multilingual both are one dot Merits.

    Here's a few suggestions for how language spirits (both for those based on a specific language and on language as a concept) can use their Influence:

    • Increase the equipment modifier for lexicons, thesauri and other translation/writing help, as well as granting a bonus to Academics/Expression for language based rolls
    •• Change the tone of speech or writing without changing the actual content, such as causing a love letter between lovers to come off as creepy, or make suggestions seem like demands
    ••• Rewrite texts, redefine words, control what people say and write (but only if they actually do speak or write)
    •••• Grant the Language or Multilingual Merits
    ••••• Use the permanent effect to create a whole new language from scratch, Tolkien style

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  • Master Aquatosic
    replied
    Originally posted by SunlessNick View Post
    It seems like something a language spirit could grant. Might even be eager to - presumably they would want the language they represent to have more speakers.

    On that note, I'd rule that the Strengthening [LANGUAGE] Influence could provide a discount on obtaining that language as a merit in either XP or downtime needed to learn

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  • SunlessNick
    replied
    It seems like something a language spirit could grant. Might even be eager to - presumably they would want the language they represent to have more speakers.

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  • Second Chances
    replied
    At a quick glance, they both look pretty solid. Nicely done!

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  • wyrdhamster
    replied
    Okay, my first takes on Acrozatarim ideas...

    Fetish – Tongue Splitter (••)
    This knife is splitting tongues – both physically and metaphorically. It’s often used in infiltration of foreign territory, by various werewolves.
    Effect: Tongue Splitter let’s a user with Skin Thief Facet to cut a tongue of his victim with Splitter and then eat it. This marks a user to use all languages victim knew for one full lunar month.

    Pack Rite - Shared Tongue (•)
    This rite invokes ancient laws of Shadow Realm that Pack speak in one voice. Ritemaster’s languages become known to all Pack members – even First Tongue.
    Symbols: Tongue, sharing, pack, First Tongue
    Sample Rite: Ritemaster makes invocations to Gods of Shadow Realm in First Tounge. Pack is joining in chorus of invocations. Then Ritemaster is splitting sacrificed tounge of the being and gives to all pack members on ceremony. Everyone swallow their parts and continue invocations. (Presence + Expression)
    Action: Extended (5 successes; each roll represents 1 minute);
    Success: This rite shares all known languages by ritemaster to all pack members. For one full lunar month all participants know those languages. If ritemaster know First Tongue, they also know it – but without non-human forms physicality they may not be able to articulate words in it. Howevere they understand what ritemaster understand.

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  • wyrdhamster
    replied
    So could Fetish and Rite be combined? Skin Thief steals the language of natives with Fetish - and then share it by the Pack Rite?

    I will try to write both later on...

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  • Acrozatarim
    replied
    Indeed. Fetishes that allow alternate uses of Facets do require you possess the Facet in the first place.

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  • wyrdhamster
    replied
    Originally posted by Acrozatarim View Post
    Yeah, I'd do a Fetish that reworks Skin Thief into letting you cut out someone's tongue and consume it to gain access to the languages they were able to speak for a month or so.
    Would this Fetish need for character to have previously Skin Thief? Cause I do not grasp this idea of 'Fetish working as Gift Facet'.

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