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Are there 'Secondborn'?

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  • Are there 'Secondborn'?

    II know there is this concept in the WtF gameline, somewhere - I just do not know if 'Secondborn' it's name. I look for the spirits that are children or part of packs of Firstborns leading werewolf Tribes. Basically, I look for the 'Firstborns Lieutenants' in Shadow Realm hierarchy. Are they called 'Secondborn' - or they have other name? I know in the game all the wolf spirits related to Tribes are Wolf-Brothers, but I look particularly for those 'second in command'.

    Originally posted by WtF, p.75
    Wolf-Brothers (Uralath) are the Uratha’s half-siblings, the ilthum once ruled by Father Wolf and now led by the Firstborn. Appearing as large wolves with minor variations depending on which tribal totem they serve, packs of Wolf-Brothers are among the Uratha’s greatest allies in the Hisil, teaching Gifts and sometimes joining the Siskur-Dah of their related tribe.
    I look for this so the PCs could summon 'Secondborn', be judge by him, and join Tribe were there are no Tribe members. Also, so the 'Secondborn' could help them with negotiating with Pure pack Totem, by it's wolfish nature.


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  • #2
    See the sidebar on page 18 of Lodges: the Faithful for a bit of information on the children of the Firstborn, who are indeed called the Secondborn.


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    • #3
      I think Garm, totem of the Lodge named after him, was one of the Secondborn as well. Don’t remember whose child he is, though.


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      • #4
        For ease of reference later on - mentioned by Satchel sidebar from Lodges: The Faithful now:

        Originally posted by Lodges: the Faithful, page 18
        CHILDREN OF THE FIRSTBORN
        The exact number of “Secondborn” wolf-spirits is unknown. It is hardly surprising that a lodge wishing to cleave tightly to its parent tribe’s tenets would seek the patronage of a child of their totem — for example, the Lodge of Garm’s relationship with its totem, the son of Fenris-Ur himself. Storytellers designing lodges should feel free to employ one of the offspring of a tribal totem as a patron, though this rarely results in any additional respect for the group as a whole. After all, the children of the Firstborn are no stronger than any other number of spirits out in the far reaches of Shadow. The Secondborn just possess a famous heritage. Or, rather, they
        claim to possess a famous heritage. There might be many more spirits that claim themselves “Secondborn” — and some will insist that they are the true Secondborn, rather than others who take the title. When dealing with spirits thousands of years old, actualities and definite facts become difficult to make out. Deception, delusion and completely alien reasoning makes spirits troublesome to understand at the best of times. Power and age only magnify that doubt.

        One of these entities as a totem can help link a lodge to its tribe even further and is also a way of presenting a somewhat familiar face to players and characters. If a Storyteller wishes to go down this route, wolf-totems require just as much effort to create as other lodge patrons, though some of the work is mapped out in that the spirit will already have some kind of relationship with its parent. This relationship will, in turn, flavor the relationship between lodge and tribe, and the ramifications of a bond between spirit-sibling and Firstborn can provide story arcs of their own. Personalities clash in even the closest of families….


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        • #5
          Garm and Cerberus are two, and there are various others

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Korogra View Post
            Cerberus
            Oh, where is Cerberus described as Secondborn?


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            • #7
              Huh... Secondborn is a very strange name for the children of the firstborn. Usually “[number]born” refers to the birth order of siblings. Obviously this isn’t the case with the Firstborn since only one can have truly been born before the others. Even so, I always took the term Firstborn to mean that these WoD spirits were the first of Urfarah’s litters, with the uratha being the second. The children of the Firstborn would be... like... the nieces and nephews of the uratha. I guess secondborn sound more impressive as a moniker, but... Just seems weird to me.


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              • #8
                Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

                Oh, where is Cerberus described as Secondborn?
                Cerberus or Gurfuros as he was called in the past is the twin of Garm. (Lodges the Faithful page 37.)
                It is speculated he is the Son of Fenris-Ur, Huzuruth-Ur or even both of them (same book p38)

                Anka-Ur is a Son of Dire Wolf and the Patron of the Lodge of Swords (Lodges the Faitful p98)

                Frost Wolf the patron of the Kshtriyas (Lodges the Splintered p26)

                Ortuz-Ur, the Blood Wolf is suggested to be a lesser/ later son of Father Wolf (W:tF 1ED p203)

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                • #9
                  There is also Scavenger Wolf, though he is said to be a Disgraced Firstborn rather that a Secondborn

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                  • #10
                    Ramamu-Ur or Growling Wolf a potential Totem for the Speaker of the Vine (The Rage p97)

                    A lesser wolf spirit called Sibath-Ur (“Herding Wolf”) acts as totem for the Lodge of Shepperds, also known as Kuluh-Ur (“Trembling Wolf”). (Not specified as secondborn!) (Blood of the Wolf p106

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                    • #11
                      As mentioned before, I need the Black Wolf’s Secondborn for my coming game. Re-reading Lore of Forsaken tidbits on Firstborn patron of Hunters in Darkness, I come with this Secondborn idea. Feel free to comment it.

                      Ki'unag-Ur - Shadow Wolf
                      ‘<Absolute silence>’

                      Ki’unag-Ur is spirit that is living shadow of other Wolf God - Hikaon-Ur, patron of Hunters in Darkness Tribe. She is Secondborn to Black Wolf, split from her very essence, when Tribal Totem first stood in the sun, creating her own spiritual-physical shadow on the first light in the start of Pangea. Ki’unag-Ur is commanding numerous lesser massagers and servants of her creator – called simply shadow-wolves - being most often ‘spokes-shewolf’ to silent Tribe leader.

                      Description: Shadow Wolf is living shadow ( from Flesh World ) of the wolf. She often dances on the walls or stalk on other flat, vertical surfaces. She is absolute silent as being only moving shadow – not making any sound, even First Tounge - that is problematic as she is most often speaking for the Hikaon-Ur. But she solved this problem, eons ago – when summoned, she choose one of participant ritemaster and by entering his own shadow and ‘eating it’, ritemaster becomes her mouthpieces – in truth possessing shaman for few minutes.

                      Storytelling Hints: When Hikaon-Ur is very distanced Firstborn – some even say aloof – then Shadow Wolf is much more close one, mischievous a bit, joyful even sometimes. She likes to take place of others shadows, even for a few moments, and bring a bit chaos in their life. She also is often testing Ghost Wolves tying to join Hunters in Darkness by hiding herself in local Shadow Realm – that only adds to her mischievous nature.

                      Rank: 5
                      Attributes: Power 9, Finesse 15, Resistance 12
                      Willpower: 10
                      Essence: 50
                      Initiative: 27
                      Defense: 12
                      Speed: 31
                      Size: 4
                      Corpus: 16
                      Influences: Darkness •••••, Wolf ••••
                      Numina: Hallucination, Host Jump, Innocuous, Mortal Mask, Pathfinder, Seek, Speed, Stalwart, Surprise Entrance*
                      Manifestations: Discorporate, Gauntlet Breach, Living Shadow**, Image, Possess, Twilight Form, Reaching
                      Ban: Must do one command of those who destroyed their own shadows
                      Bane: Ray of the sun from the Pangea

                      * As Dread Power of the same name – CoD Rulebook, p. 148 – but Cost 1 Essence and activates by Power + Finesses roll

                      ** New Manifestation – Living Shadow
                      Ephemeral Being can take place of shadow of physical being or object. It ‘eats’ the original shadow in one turn and take place in the normal places where mundane shadow would be from the same being – but looks as her normal Twilight Form. Used with Mortal Mask Numina it lets Ephemeral to become perfect shadow duplicate of original shadow, letting Ephemeral to be hidden as copy of original shadow, perfectly following original. Original shadow returns to owner after one full day if not eaten by Ephemeral once again. Costs 3 Essence.


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