How problematic are Pure Tribes Vows?

[wyrdhamster]

I have a question how limiting are Oaths specific made by Pure Tribes, in real gameplay? For example, I think about doing Predator Kings pack inside Forest Service. Can they use uniforms or personal weapons and not drop in Harmony each scene? Can they look human, most of the time, and not every time test their Harmony?

Side question: I cannot find in 2E corebook how stated are Tribe Vows for Pure. Where are they?

[milo v3]

I have a question how limiting are Oaths specific made by Pure Tribes, in real gameplay? For example, I think about doing Predator Kings pack inside Forest Service. Can they use uniforms or personal weapons and not drop in Harmony each scene? Can they look human, most of the time, and not every time test their Harmony?

Fire-Touched have a pretty severe restriction, but it can be played around by a smart character. Predator Kings can get really screwed, since even getting them into a building is one way to break their ban apparently.

Side question: I cannot find in 2E corebook how stated are Tribe Vows for Pure. Where are they?

Previous thread you made answered this.

[nofather]

I imagine second edition will change or at least adapt the bans, considering how the Pure have changed.

Not honoring things of human craft can mean no walking in cities, but it can also just mean not paying undue respect to modern things. There's an entire lodge of Predator Kings devoted to living in cities and the example member is a high-functioning member of the upper class. That was first edition, with a stricter ban and different Harmony value, that included them and other Pure breaking the ban at Harmony 3-5 since they could ask for penance later.

That said, a Predator King probably wouldn't bind themselves to a job in Forest Services, something they can do better an unhindered without anchoring themselves to a bureaucracy ultimately led by humans.

[FallenEco]

Tribal Bans have been...altered. It is a breaking point towards Flesh, yes. And it could come under the Ban condition, inflicting penalties to breaking it and earning beats whilst Beats.

[milo v3]

I imagine second edition will change or at least adapt the bans, considering how the Pure have changed.

2e core has their bans in the antagonists section (though not in as fancy a manner as the forsaken tribes bans).

[nofather]

2e core has their bans in the antagonists section (though not in as fancy a manner as the forsaken tribes bans).

Yeah lets see. 'They have their tribal oaths just like we do, and it’s a weakness worth exploiting. The Fire-Touched can never knowingly lie, so trick and mislead them with false information. The Ivory Claws cannot call an “impure” Uratha their brother, so set rumors going that their allies come from Forsaken bloodlines and watch the rifts open up. The Predator Kings can’t use the fruits of human labor, which puts them on the back foot already, but you can tighten the screws further — chase or lure them into human buildings, that sort of thing. Make them choose — break their oath or suffer.'

They are a little different from first edition, though it's in-character so the perspective may not be spot on. It will be interesting to see how Shunned by the Moon expands on them. The 'fruits of human labor' thing is a pretty big weakness. Though like FallenEco pointed out, as its a break to the Flesh, with the Pure leaning towards the Spirit having tribal ban breaking bringing them up could probably help them maintain balance. They were sort of like the Circle of the Crone in first edition, willingly dropping their Harmony so they could pay penance for it later (instead of the Circle's dropping of Humanity to better understand it). I think they're supposed to have a different Harmony scale, though, or at least an Oath that has different Breaking Points.

[Bunyip]

Ask a Simple Question, wyrd... use the thread. Stop spamming us with new ones for your *simple questions*, please.

[ArcaneArts]

Is it against community rules to suggest we should start reporting every topic started that better belongs in the simple questions thread?

[wyrdhamster]

Ask a Simple Question, wyrd... use the thread. Stop spamming us with new ones for your *simple questions*, please.

It's not 'simple topic', as literally nofather and FallenEco pointed above - and I will expand now.

Not honoring things of human craft can mean no walking in cities, but it can also just mean not paying undue respect to modern things. There's an entire lodge of Predator Kings devoted to living in cities and the example member is a high-functioning member of the upper class. That was first edition, with a stricter ban and different Harmony value, that included them and other Pure breaking the ban at Harmony 3-5 since they could ask for penance later.

I think of living in building should be okay for Predator Kings - humans and werewolves were doing this before death of Urfarah. Probably usage of modern technology is outside of question. So maybe Predator Kings can use lone, wooden hut in the woods? Or living in RV/camper vehicle?

[wyrdhamster]

Tribal Bans have been...altered. It is a breaking point towards Flesh, yes. And it could come under the Ban condition, inflicting penalties to breaking it and earning beats whilst Beats.

Hmmm, so by Breaking Tribal Vows Pure are gaining back Harmony, and rising to Flesh? This is interesting - so typical Pure life is 'doing Totems slave service, going low on Harmony, and then break their own Bans so to regain to middle of Harmony' in 2E?

[wyrdhamster]

That said, a Predator King probably wouldn't bind themselves to a job in Forest Services, something they can do better an unhindered without anchoring themselves to a bureaucracy ultimately led by humans.

I was thinking more in line for the Predator Kings of 'We are forest rangers ( and so can kill you ), our Wolf-Blooded are running park from big office in center of it.' Using firearms is probably going under the Tribal Ban, but using uniform? It's only clothing - in The Pure book I saw Predator King splat image in clothing so should probably by okay.

[Tessie]

It's not 'simple topic', as literally nofather and FallenEco pointed above - and I will expand now.

You do realise that the simple question threads can handle both follow up questions and discussions (that I've repeatedly seen cover multiple pages while your threads rarely reach more than one)?

[Bunyip]

It's not 'simple topic', as literally nofather and FallenEco pointed above - and I will expand now.

It really is a simple topic, wyrd. Like so many of your ‘difficult’ topics, it always boils down to you asking a question, receiving a couple of opinions, you then spam-posting your own thread as you turn each individual thought you have into separate posts. And 99% of the time the answer to your questions is ‘whatever works best for your game.’ And 100% of the time, the answer you choose to accept is ‘whatever I felt like doing before I even asked the question.’

So let’s play this game.

Q - How limiting are Pure Oaths in gameplay?
A - As limiting as every other tribal oath. If you break them, you’ll have a breaking point. If you do it too often, you’ll have a pissed off Firstborn patron.

That’s it. Everything else is just you talking yourself into fulfilling the concept you proposed you were going to do in the initial post.

Now if you posted these questions in the ‘Ask a Simple Question’ thread, people would give you some quick answers. Job done. If you ask something that is legimately a more difficult question, rest-assured that people will be quick to offer that opinion and suggest that you spin it off into a bigger thread for discussion.

[wyrdhamster]

Q - How limiting are Pure Oaths in gameplay?
A - As limiting as every other tribal oath. If you break them, you’ll have a breaking point. If you do it too often, you’ll have a pissed off Firstborn patron.

So what would be Breaking Points for Predator Kings Ban? Using Firearms/clothing/house?

[Bunyip]

Anything made by humans.