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How the hell are you supposed to lose Harmony?

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  • How the hell are you supposed to lose Harmony?

    So I have a big problem in my current game, where my Werewolf went to Harmony 10, and after spending a week in the Shadow, still could only lose 1 Harmony, and now can't go back because she has a totem and bringing a totem into the material world is a breaking point towards flesh. I for some reason can't find any other conversations on this topic but it seems nearly impossible to get out of the extreme ends of Harmony because a typically roll is 7 dice that you have to fail (5 Stats + 2 Touchstone) and only 2 Dice that you have to succeed.

    Any advice?

  • #2
    Do Totem is really in the Flesh? Cause from my knowledge, most of the time they are in Twilight, even if going over Gaunlet, so it should not be Breaking Point toward Flesh in the first time.

    As to what can you do from the Flesh side... Hmmm, let's look over Harmony toward Spirits Breaking Points from 2E corebook:​

    • Killing a human or wolf.
    • Staying in the Hisil for a week. - Impossible to do in yours situation
    • Hunting humans or wolves for food (–2) - Easier to lower Harmony
    • Killing a packmate. (–2) - Easier to lower Harmony
    • Eating human or wolf flesh for Essence (–3) - Easier to lower Harmony
    • Staying in the Hisil for a month. (–3) - Impossible to do in yours situation
    HARMONY 8 OR MORE
    • Inflicting Lunacy on a loved one.
    • Leading the Siskur-Dah.
    • Spending more than two days away from your pack. - Hard to do in general situation
    • Staying in the Hisil for a full day. - Impossible to do in yours situation

    So your best bet is to declare Siskur-Dah on human or wolf and eat his flesh for Essence, to join more Breaking Points in one act, probably.
    Last edited by wyrdhamster; 06-02-2018, 12:31 AM.


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    • #3
      Bringing a totem into the material world isn't a breaking point at any level of Harmony remotely close to 10, being stuck at the endpoints is pretty much the exact nightmare scenario where deliberately destroying the relevant Touchstone becomes a relevant possibility, and being stuck in the Flesh is markedly easier to deal with than being stuck in the Shadow on account of how much murder helps you deal with it.

      Like, you're describing an intentional problem that the system is set up to handle through drastic action on the character's part. Kill people. Eat people. Lean into your spiritual Touchstone as a prelude to buying Anchored to shift the bonus away from keeping you on the upper levels. Lead the Sacred Hunt and unmake some spirits. Shift in front of your loved ones. Keep away from your pack.

      The necessity of rolling by volume to recenter your Harmony as your Resolve and Composure increase is a clearly visible point of the mechanics' design, and it's also clear that camping out on the margins of one extreme or the other is also a valid playstyle to lean into. What're you doing for Essence?


      Resident Sanguinary Analyst
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      • #4
        Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
        So your best bet is to declare Siskur-Dah on human or wolf and eat his flesh for Essence, to join more Breaking Points in one act, probably.
        That'd be 3 Breaking Points toward spirit, and 1 toward flesh, as eating the flesh of man or wolf is breaking the Oath too.

        Originally posted by Satchel View Post
        Bringing a totem into the material world isn't a breaking point at any level of Harmony remotely close to 10, being stuck at the endpoints is pretty much the exact nightmare scenario where deliberately destroying the relevant Touchstone becomes a relevant possibility, and being stuck in the Flesh is markedly easier to deal with than being stuck in the Shadow on account of how much murder helps you deal with it.

        Like, you're describing an intentional problem that the system is set up to handle through drastic action on the character's part. Kill people. Eat people. Lean into your spiritual Touchstone as a prelude to buying Anchored to shift the bonus away from keeping you on the upper levels. Lead the Sacred Hunt and unmake some spirits. Shift in front of your loved ones. Keep away from your pack.

        The necessity of rolling by volume to recenter your Harmony as your Resolve and Composure increase is a clearly visible point of the mechanics' design, and it's also clear that camping out on the margins of one extreme or the other is also a valid playstyle to lean into. What're you doing for Essence?
        Nevermind all that, at such extreme level of Harmony, spending 1 day in the Shadow is a breaking point toward spirit, as well.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Malus View Post
          That'd be 3 Breaking Points toward spirit, and 1 toward flesh, as eating the flesh of man or wolf is breaking the Oath too.
          As I literally yesterday had the same example at game session, I gone with interpretation that only Breaking Point toward Spirits is counted - as there all Uratha would only eat humans for Essence, all the time, as BP toward Flash and Spirit are canceling each other. It's logical that you take more extreme Breaking Point for each action ( like eating processed meat, eating humans, eating humans for Essence ) and eating Essence is MUCH MORE WORKING LIKE SPIRIT than problem of Oaths of Moon breaking making you too human.
          Last edited by wyrdhamster; 06-02-2018, 06:52 AM.


          LGBT+ in CoD games
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          • #6
            Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

            As I literally yesterday had the same example at game session, I gone with interpretation that only Breaking Point toward Spirits is counted - as there all Uratha would only eat humans for Essence, all the time, as BP toward Flash and Spirit are canceling each other. It's logical that you take more extreme Breaking Point for each action ( like eating processed meat, eating humans, eating humans for Essence ) and eating Essence is MUCH MORE WORKING LIKE SPIRIT than problem of Oaths of Moon breaking.
            The corollary is, some things are a breaking point to both extremes, and if you look at it your current Harmony stage, it turns out that the Physical pull weights more by the breaking points mechanics themselves.

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