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[2E] Uratha and Ghosts

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  • [2E] Uratha and Ghosts

    So we are after Geist 2E rules preview from Kickstarter of it - and I prepare scene in that I may use ghosts as secondary antagonists - let's talk about topic of werewolves interactions with restless dead. Most of them are, obviously, imposed by the Bone Shadows Siskur-Dah effect and Berghest Facet from Gift of Death. Are there other way for Uratha to interact with dead? New rules on 2E ghosts from GtSE 2E somehow limit things? Is there a way for non-Bone Shadows blessed wolves to see ghosts in Twilight?

    EDIT: My take on fan rules:

    Summoning Ancestors

    In Werewolf: the Forsaken are ephemeral beings that people from many cultures in world’s history would call Ancestors – powerful after image of their famous and noble progenitors they can summon and ask for guidance. Those beings are:
    1. Imria Hithim – Spirits of Bloodlines – See Predators book, page 64.
    2. Hissu – Spirits of the Dead – As Uratha are half-spirits themselves, those most Renowned of them, left whole spiritual memory of their life as werewolves and deeds they done. Those spirits need to be worshiped by their pack or families, or they will be destroyed in ‘eat or you'll be eaten’ ecology of Hisil. Imria mentioned before are probably amalgamations of previous Hissu that were too weak to survive on their own. Uratha need to get to Honorary Rank 2 to leave Hissu behind him – or it will join Imria, if it exists in character family.
    3. Erenissu – Ghosts – What we call ‘ghosts’ in Chronicles of Darkness universe are spiritual afterimage of person, left and breathed by the ephemeral energies of world. They are not alive the spirits are – but they can degrade – or evolve. Generally, Uratha do not leave Erenissu – they natural life left-over are Hissu – however strong magic can create those ‘memories’ – just like it can for mortal family members. Expanded rules for ghosts are to be found in Geist: Sin-Eaters 2E or Mage: The Awakening 2E.
    Common Pack Rite – Summon Hissu (•••)
    Variant of Shadowcall Rite, it summons up a Hissu spirit marked by the ritemaster.
    Symbols: Circles, a call, lights, Hissu prized possession in life or family member ( ghost Anchor equivalent )
    Sample Rite: Ritemaster is reciting or playacting greatest acts of Renown of called Hissu. The rest of rite participants are calling name of Hissu and recite those, like chorus in Greek drama. (Presence + Expression)
    Action: Extended (20 successes; each roll represents 1 minute); potentially contested by the spirit’s Resistance
    Success: This rite targets calls Hissu of the marked. Spirit is bound to show up, but it can take even up to next dawn or dusk ( whichever is closer ) if it need to travel across land. The spirit becomes immediately aware once the rite begins, and can try to resist or can voluntarily respond to the call. If the rite succeeds, the spirit appears within a delineated summoning spot that has appropriate Anchor in it. Unlike most rites, the local Gauntlet strength does affect the dice pool for Summon Hissu if the called spirit is on the opposite side of the Gauntlet to the ritemaster when the rite begins.
    If the summoning takes place in the material world, the area within the delineated space gains the Open Condition and the spirit appears in Twilight. If it has the Materialize Manifestation, then it may use this power at no cost when it appears.
    Exceptional Success: Hissu shows instantly, without any delays from distance to location.

    Common Pack Rite – Summon Ghost (•••)
    Variant of Shadowcall Rite, it summons up a ghost marked by the ritemaster. If the ghosts does not exists or in Underworld, only Exceptional Success can create it or bring it back.
    Symbols: Circles, a call, lights, ghost’s Anchor ( See Chronicles of Darkness Rulebook, GtSE 2E or M:tAw 2E )
    Sample Rite: Most popular variant from Bone Shadows, rite is series of verses in dead languages that may entice being to the Realm of Living. Ritemaster is evoking famous lost or people places connected to being ( like Library of Alexandria or Attila the Hun ), pointing to esoteric connections with dead and living. (Intelligence + Occult)
    Action: Extended (20 successes; each roll represents 1 minute); potentially contested by the ghost’s Resistance
    Success: This rite targets calls the named ghosts. Ghostis bound to show up, but it can take even up to next dawn or dusk ( whichever is closer ) if it need to travel across land. The ghost becomes immediately aware once the rite begins, and can try to resist or can voluntarily respond to the call. If the rite succeeds, the ghost immediately appears within a delineated summoning spot that has appropriate Anchor in it. Unlike most rites, the local Gauntlet strength does affect the dice pool for Summon Ghost if the called ghost is on the opposite side of the Gauntlet to the ritemaster when the rite begins.
    If the summoning takes place in the material world, the area within the delineated space gains the Open Condition and the ghost appears in death Twilight. If it has the Materialize Manifestation, then it may use this power at no cost when it appears.
    Exceptional Success: Ghost appears even if it does not exists – or is in the Underworld, at the moment. If ghost is created, it always start at Rank 1.
    Last edited by wyrdhamster; 12-10-2019, 02:58 PM.


    My stuff for Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
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  • #2
    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
    Is there a way for non-Bone Shadows blessed wolves to see ghosts in Twilight?
    There's the Barghest gift. There's not multiple Gifts that let you see ghosts in Twilight, though. You can set up a warding gift to detect ghosts that enter a certain area. A fetish or rite could do it.

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    • #3
      Invent a Rite for it.


      Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
      The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
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      • #4
        But I got it right - If PCs marked as Bone Shadow Siskur-Dah target Shadow Wolf Secondborn and they did not killed it - they still cannot utilize 'ability to touch and strike ephemeral entities nominated as prey with her natural weapons' if ghosts ( or other ephemerals for that matter ) where not pointed as prey in Sacred Hunt, correct? So unless ghosts are Materialized on their own and PCs do not have Berghest Facet - they cannot physically harm ghosts?


        My stuff for Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
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        • #5
          Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
          So unless ghosts are Materialized on their own and PCs do not have Berghest Facet - they cannot physically harm ghosts?
          Hurting ghosts is another matter. Ghosts in Twilight are still weak to their bane, there are fetishes like the whisper knife that allow one to strike any entity in Twilight, rites like Twilight Purge that kick things out of Twilight, force them into Materialization and keep them from going back, and totem spirits or spirit allies with the right setup can see or attack ghosts.

          And while not a direct attack one can destroy their anchors to cause Essence bleed.

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          • #6
            Destroying Anchors is much more effective for ghosts since the Anchor Condition isn't naturally occurring and having Influence 4 is extremely rare for non-Reapers.


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            • #7
              It may be worth noting that wolfbloods with the piercing eyes tell can percieve ghosts in twilight automatically, making them good spotters for a pack interested in cleaning up ghosts?


              Currently Playing: A large, mixed splat game of CofD. As: Seraph du Salomon, Voice on the concordance. Unsubtle man reluctantly participating in the business of Magi. Awakening 2E homebrew http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...=1569864567692

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Gryphon's Feather View Post
                It may be worth noting that wolfbloods with the piercing eyes tell can percieve ghosts in twilight automatically, making them good spotters for a pack interested in cleaning up ghosts?
                But would Wolf-Blooded seeing ghosts could help to hit the ghosts by the rest of pack? Saying 'Oh, it's there... No there...' is only partially solving problem of actually getting rid of ghost in the first place.


                My stuff for Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
                LGBT+ through Ages
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                • #9
                  It's a bit more information, and once the pack knows there is a ghost, the actual wolves can start up their gifts, activate fetishes made with death-related spirits, and set up any needed rites that could let them deal with it.


                  Currently Playing: A large, mixed splat game of CofD. As: Seraph du Salomon, Voice on the concordance. Unsubtle man reluctantly participating in the business of Magi. Awakening 2E homebrew http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...=1569864567692

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

                    But would Wolf-Blooded seeing ghosts could help to hit the ghosts by the rest of pack? Saying 'Oh, it's there... No there...' is only partially solving problem of actually getting rid of ghost in the first place.
                    Late to the party, but do they need to hit it? I mean, excorism, abjuration, etc., these are things that werewolves and wolf-blooded can employ.


                    Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                    The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                    Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
                      Late to the party, but do they need to hit it? I mean, excorism, abjuration, etc., these are things that werewolves and wolf-blooded can employ.
                      Can Werewolves use Abjuration? I thought that rolled Integrity.


                      Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
                      Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Vent0 View Post

                        Can Werewolves use Abjuration? I thought that rolled Integrity.
                        If not abjuration directly, then rough correlations to it.


                        Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                        The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                        Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.

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                        • #13
                          Topic resurrection as I want to talk to related thing - Werewolves Ancestors. To be frank, I do not like WtF 1E idea of Ancestors Spirits - spirits that are amalgamation of dynasty symbology and 'minds of all those before you'. They may work for very famous dynasties - like Byzantine Emperors dynasties - but do not sounds to be as Ancestors are to all those animistic cultures we have in history. If you take Japanese shinto or European neopagans they do not invoke 'great spirit of <my surname>' - but, rather, 'My grandfather Bob, come to us!'

                          Now I wonder how Uratha could summon 'Grandfather Bob' ghost from Underworld or create it ( if soul 'moved on' ) in their rites...
                          Last edited by wyrdhamster; 12-09-2019, 02:08 AM.


                          My stuff for Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
                          LGBT+ through Ages
                          LGBT+ in CoD games

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                            Now I wonder how Uratha could summon 'Grandfather Bob' ghost from Underworld or create it ( if soul 'moved on' ) in their rites...
                            First you need to establish whether an ancestor spirit is a spirit born of a single urathas actions during his lifetime, making the spirit a sort of residual memory of that particular werewolf, or an actual "ghost." Then you just need the rite to summon an ancestor spirit or a ghost.


                            Dam da namsithim.

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                            • #15
                              Maybe wrest the secrets of blood tapestries or something from the Ivory Claws.

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