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  • #16
    In the 1,000 Years of Night book, the chart suggests 25 exp for 200-500 years... and then follows up by suggesting using arcs that represent around a human lifespan (so 70 years) of effort rather than buy all the details. Arcs exp costs range from 34-36 exp... That's "Mover and Shaker" levels of exp, (35) which the chart suggests means 500-800 years. That's just odd.

    So... anyhow, if 35 exp is a good average human lifespan of effort, the average assumption is around 1 exp every second year. As a suggestion for vampire elders it honestly sounds good. Those who push harder should be able to reach much higher heights. Early on, when you've experienced less, new lessons should come easier, as well.

    The vamp chart would look very different that way, though:
    100-250 exp, 350-400 exp. 400-500 exp, >500 exp;
    Of course, a good percentage of elders' time would be locked down in Torpor, as well, or rehashing already learned things, so I could see knocking those down by a lot:

    75, 125, 175, 200+ sound better to me than the charts given, assuming a Torpor every few lifetimes or so..
    75, 150, 200, 250+ would work pretty well for a more active elder.


    Grump, grouse, and/or gripe.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by thenate View Post
      In the 1,000 Years of Night book, the chart suggests 25 exp for 200-500 years... and then follows up by suggesting using arcs that represent around a human lifespan (so 70 years) of effort rather than buy all the details. Arcs exp costs range from 34-36 exp... That's "Mover and Shaker" levels of exp, (35) which the chart suggests means 500-800 years. That's just odd.
      That's extremely not odd when the same section that provides the age-based chart immediately recommends you use the Spinning the Web exercise that gives a character one Experience for every completed node out of the nine presented.


      Resident Sanguinary Analyst
      Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Satchel View Post
        That's extremely not odd when the same section that provides the age-based chart immediately recommends you use the Spinning the Web exercise that gives a character one Experience for every completed node out of the nine presented.
        That only grants up to 9 XP. But not being able to buy an arc isn't the odd thing. What's odd is that 34 XP represents 200-500 years of vampiric existence, or 50-70 years if the vampire buys an arc. A Rank Elder who buys an arc to represent a fraction of their unlife has literally no XP left to represent the rest of the time spent in their unlife. And no, the rest of the time was not spent in torpor since the arcs represents downtime spent away from the Danse Macabre.


        Bloodline: The Stygians
        Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
        Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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        • #19
          Yeah the weird thing was to group exp to a set idea about age alone, and that it was way lower then what would be reasonable. And by that I mean, the flavor text far exceeds how capable elders are compared to the mediocre exp gained. It's just plain hard to portray an elder with that low a exp, you get a few dots in a small area if you buy one of those arcs, but no disciplines. I guess it was a balance thing, not having insanely exp filled character sheets as starting elder but still playable options that led us here. Although, I can agree that the intent was good I also feel that it kinda missed the mark. 1000 years kinda let us play as neonates but with hundreds of years worth of back story if we like. Yes, this is a bit of exaggeration but not much. My fledgling PCs at my table are way stronger then most elders created with the 1000 years rules (except from not having BP 5), although they have a lot of exp from the chronicle we'd played as humans. It would be a laugh if NPC elders where built with these rules, and I feel they would be very much disappointed if they some day played elders and they had the 1000 years rules to go from.

          I think most people excepted elders way stronger than the meager starting exp you get by RAW. I know I was really surprised when the table turned out to actually be a literal translation, not just some random flavor text instead of saying, "experienced PCs can start anywhere from 5 to 100 exp depending on the chronicle and ST approval"
          Last edited by Poseur; 09-24-2018, 08:03 AM.

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          • #20
            Can't y'all just modify the rules? I'm sure the devs did not mean for elders to actually be weak, perhaps the rules are being misinterpreted

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post
              Can't y'all just modify the rules?
              That's what is being discussed, yes.

              Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post
              I'm sure the devs did not mean for elders to actually be weak
              Probably not. They're definitely not presented as being as weak as the tables would let you build them, but like Satchel mentioned, the elders presented in the setting aren't bound by experience costs.

              Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post
              perhaps the rules are being misinterpreted
              Two-column tables are rather difficult to misinterpret.
              (cue snarky commentary from those that disagree with the premises of the argument claiming that people are managing to find a way to do so, anyway)

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