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The Ethics of the Wolf

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  • The Ethics of the Wolf

    Say you have hills and or mountains and a nice, fertile valley below filled with flocks of sheep and herds of cattle. As the People, they are going to want to prey on such a bounty. But, there is a sort of ethics involved; If the People prey on one herded and kill all his sheep, he is lost and unable to regain his losses; however, if they prey on one shepard, then another a few days later and another one, they valley can regain its losses and thus sustainability. There is also a benefit to the people of the valley; if an invading army moved they would surely take all the cattle and sheep, depriving the Uratha of their food source; the Uratha would surely come to the aid of the shepards and defend the valley. The people of the valley have a sort of ally on their side in the wolf that hunts their flocks and herds.

  • #2
    I mean, why can't the Uratha just walk into town in Hishu and buy meat like everyone else? Yes, they eventually need to hunt meat to get nutrients, but very few werewolves are going to get to that point.


    A god is just a monster you kneel to. - ArcaneArts, Quoting "Fall of Gods"

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Master Aquatosic View Post
      I mean, why can't the Uratha just walk into town in Hishu and buy meat like everyone else? Yes, they eventually need to hunt meat to get nutrients, but very few werewolves are going to get to that point.
      This is a good point. They could also eat the invading army.

      Territorial wolves are going to act differently, some really placing an emphasis on fairness, some doing what they want, some focusing on other aspects of their territory than someone's sheep.

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      • #4
        Also, they can eat a lot of animals that humans aren't farming, and it probably feels more satisfying than eating dumb livestock to a being of the Hunt to some.

        Those who like screwing with, intimidating or just plain chasing off humans are not part of thaf group


        A god is just a monster you kneel to. - ArcaneArts, Quoting "Fall of Gods"

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        • #5
          It's not very satisfying, but if nothing else is available they can sacred hunt to the grocery store. Especially if they are very specific about their choice of custom cuts.

          Or they could go get a hamburger and F'off to the Hisil for real prey. Until invaders come, of course. Whatever doesn't belong is fair game, eh?

          Now if you're dealing with a pack that is bound (e.g. to a totem, such as Predator Kings) to pursue natural cycles they are going to be more dismissive of human civilization except as a source of wolf-blooded periodically. They're more likely to cluster around a "pack" of mixed humans, wolf-blooded and wolves in some kind of little clan or commune, and sullenly trade so they can make their own tools and the like.

          Back to the ethics bit: wolves in the wild act to cull weak and sick animals. They won't waste time hunting down healthy, strong and fast ones. And if their own numbers grow too much, they expel excess members to form new packs in new territories, rather than overhunting their own space (you can still get overhunting, of course). Now Uratha are not wolves. So they can balance the instinct with their minds and decide what is reasonable and responsible: the Wolf Must Hunt, but the Man decides what it must hunt.

          --Khanwulf

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          • #6
            Remember that they are as much Hunt as Wolf, if not more. A wolf goes after the sick and weak because it hunts to provide meat for its stomach and going after them more reliably provides meat. A werewolf eventually gains his nutrition from the Hunt itself though, so the symbolism of how and what they hunt is almost as important to their diet

            Edit: i fell like this whole post conflicts with my earlier post a bit but i don't feel like deleting it


            A god is just a monster you kneel to. - ArcaneArts, Quoting "Fall of Gods"

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            • #7
              I’m just gonna say that if they are hunting and eating the invaders, they have jumped from trying to justify their hunters instincts to “ I guess we are now all servants of Belphagor” and are now Bale Bale Hounds in spirit if not in name, because they are violating the Oath: arguably something that makes the ethical dilemmas of killing all the sheep or buying burgers from Dairy Queen a nonissue anymore.
              Last edited by Korogra; 11-28-2018, 03:07 PM.

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              • #8
                You can violate an Oath of the Moon without swearing to serve dark forces.

                And you can empower the dark forces without breaking any rules. The Architect of Violence has been empowered by every act of violence there is, it doesn't matter if you're doing it for a good cause and with the okay of spiritual entities, it doesn't make every werewolf that rolled a combat die a bale hound.
                Last edited by nofather; 11-28-2018, 03:09 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Korogra View Post
                  I’m just gonna say that if they are hunting and eating the invaders, they have jumped from trying to justify their hunters instincts to “ I guess we are now all servants of Belphagor” and are now Bale Bale Hounds in spirit if not in name, because they are violating the Oath: arguably something that makes the ethical dilemmas of killing all the sheep or buying burgers from Dairy Queen a nonissue anymore.

                  Ok, more literal than needed. As Master Aquatosic points out they don't have to actually eat eat the invaders. They could chase them down, defeat them in glorious battle, and... I dunno. Lick them maybe? Let them go in their undies with stern warnings and then retire to the Hisil to eat spirits? Or a Big Mac?

                  Obviously if you're plan is to violate the Oath of the Moon first and manage the situation second, you're not in a sustainable place. I didn't really feel that necessary to point out, previously....

                  --Khanwulf

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                  • #10
                    If they are repeatedly doing it, they are more or less demonstrating that they do not particularly care about upholding the Oath, and are violating the moral values of their people- they may not actively serve the Maeljin ( yet), but the Lords Of the Wounds would definitely take notice and a possible interest in the pack.

                    And I know what they said, just pointing that out to the person who mentioned eating the invaders xD
                    Last edited by Korogra; 11-28-2018, 03:14 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Korogra View Post
                      If they are repeatedly doing it, they are more or less demonstrating that they do not particularly care about upholding the Oath, and are violating the moral values of their people- they may not actively serve them Maeljin ( yet), but the Lords Of the Wounds would definitely take notice and a possible interest in the pack.
                      Different werewolves focusing on different aspects of the Oath of the Moon, or in the case of the Pure, paying attention to none of them, is part of the setting. It doesn't make one a Bale Hound any more than speeding makes you a supervillain.

                      Check out Blasphemies, the Bale Hounds are due for a change in second edition but until then that has a nice thorough chapter on what it takes to be a Bale Hound and how they aren't just someone who breaks the Oath of the Moon.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by nofather View Post

                        Different werewolves focusing on different aspects of the Oath of the Moon, or in the case of the Pure, paying attention to none of them, is part of the setting. It doesn't make one a Bale Hound any more than speeding makes you a supervillain.

                        Check out Blasphemies, the Bale Hounds are due for a change in second edition but until then that has a nice thorough chapter on what it takes to be a Bale Hound and how they aren't just someone who breaks the Oath of the Moon.
                        The Pure do have an Oath in place that pretty much entails everything that the Oath of the Moon does minus respecting the Low or not murdering the People ( they do do, but it’s reworded to apply only to fellow Pure). The Pure still adhere to the values of being Uratha... well they try, just like their counterparts.

                        But comparing speeding to actively hunting down people and eating them afterwards just doesn’t really fit lol

                        I get what you’re saying though.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Master Aquatosic View Post
                          I mean, why can't the Uratha just walk into town in Hishu and buy meat like everyone else? Yes, they eventually need to hunt meat to get nutrients, but very few werewolves are going to get to that point.

                          True; but how are they going to get money? Get a job at the local WalMart? How long could they hold down a job until someone upsets them and they rip their arm off (ripping an arm off of an irate customer is a dream if anyone has ever worked retail).

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Iguazu View Post
                            True; but how are they going to get money? Get a job at the local WalMart? How long could they hold down a job until someone upsets them and they rip their arm off (ripping an arm off of an irate customer is a dream if anyone has ever worked retail).
                            Indefinitely? Uratha don't rage just because someone upsets them. All of the example packs from the Pack book, detailing how packs work, have steady jobs. Software development company, hospital administration and staff, fire department, and band.

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                            • #15
                              But Kuruth can strike at any time, I think is the point Iguazu was making.


                              "There are nights when the wolves are silent and only the moon howls." - George Carlin

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