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The Ethics of the Wolf

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  • Iguazu
    started a topic The Ethics of the Wolf

    The Ethics of the Wolf

    Say you have hills and or mountains and a nice, fertile valley below filled with flocks of sheep and herds of cattle. As the People, they are going to want to prey on such a bounty. But, there is a sort of ethics involved; If the People prey on one herded and kill all his sheep, he is lost and unable to regain his losses; however, if they prey on one shepard, then another a few days later and another one, they valley can regain its losses and thus sustainability. There is also a benefit to the people of the valley; if an invading army moved they would surely take all the cattle and sheep, depriving the Uratha of their food source; the Uratha would surely come to the aid of the shepards and defend the valley. The people of the valley have a sort of ally on their side in the wolf that hunts their flocks and herds.

  • nofather
    replied
    Yeah it definitely showcased the more wolf-blooded side of things.

    But their death rage incident didn't happen as they were performing or anything, it happened as they were doing an investigation on the hunt as werewolves. They could 'get the band back together' but they started being afraid of each other after it happened (and as noted elsewhere, their current situation isn't exactly helping them get through it).

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  • zannmato
    replied
    Originally posted by Dessembrae View Post

    The Pack book is also designed to showcase how Wolf Blooded can be used in games beyond the usual "they exist". To me this specific example showcases a very large statistical outlier where they help a pack of way out of balance Harmony werewolves maintain some semblance of normality. For most packs however, they should be more than capable of holding a regular job without ripping off the foreman's head.
    Fair enough

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  • Dessembrae
    replied
    Originally posted by zannmato View Post

    If I remember correctly, the band was one of the examples where the members relied heavily on wolf blooded in order to function as a pack because the werewolf members couldn't trust that they wouldn't lose it.
    The Pack book is also designed to showcase how Wolf Blooded can be used in games beyond the usual "they exist". To me this specific example showcases a very large statistical outlier where they help a pack of way out of balance Harmony werewolves maintain some semblance of normality. For most packs however, they should be more than capable of holding a regular job without ripping off the foreman's head.
    Last edited by Dessembrae; 12-12-2018, 10:02 AM.

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  • zannmato
    replied
    Originally posted by nofather View Post

    Indefinitely? Uratha don't rage just because someone upsets them. All of the example packs from the Pack book, detailing how packs work, have steady jobs. Software development company, hospital administration and staff, fire department, and band.
    If I remember correctly, the band was one of the examples where the members relied heavily on wolf blooded in order to function as a pack because the werewolf members couldn't trust that they wouldn't lose it.

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  • zannmato
    replied
    Originally posted by Satchel View Post
    If you're at a point where you're checking for Kuruth in your day job, your Harmony and/or your day job are presenting far bigger problems.
    I totally agree XD

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  • nofather
    replied
    Originally posted by zannmato View Post
    But Kuruth can strike at any time, I think is the point Iguazu was making.
    My point is that it doesn't.

    Providing you're not freshly changed, you know what your triggers are. And unless your workplace involves thrown silver weapons, or for some reason you're aiming for disharmony, odds are you're fine.

    In first edition random things were more likely to cause Kuruth but in second edition it's pretty easy to maintain control.

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  • Satchel
    replied
    Originally posted by zannmato View Post
    But Kuruth can strike at any time, I think is the point Iguazu was making.
    If you're at a point where you're checking for Kuruth in your day job, your Harmony and/or your day job are presenting far bigger problems.

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  • zannmato
    replied
    But Kuruth can strike at any time, I think is the point Iguazu was making.

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  • nofather
    replied
    Originally posted by Iguazu View Post
    True; but how are they going to get money? Get a job at the local WalMart? How long could they hold down a job until someone upsets them and they rip their arm off (ripping an arm off of an irate customer is a dream if anyone has ever worked retail).
    Indefinitely? Uratha don't rage just because someone upsets them. All of the example packs from the Pack book, detailing how packs work, have steady jobs. Software development company, hospital administration and staff, fire department, and band.

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  • Iguazu
    replied
    Originally posted by Master Aquatosic View Post
    I mean, why can't the Uratha just walk into town in Hishu and buy meat like everyone else? Yes, they eventually need to hunt meat to get nutrients, but very few werewolves are going to get to that point.

    True; but how are they going to get money? Get a job at the local WalMart? How long could they hold down a job until someone upsets them and they rip their arm off (ripping an arm off of an irate customer is a dream if anyone has ever worked retail).

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  • Korogra
    replied
    Originally posted by nofather View Post

    Different werewolves focusing on different aspects of the Oath of the Moon, or in the case of the Pure, paying attention to none of them, is part of the setting. It doesn't make one a Bale Hound any more than speeding makes you a supervillain.

    Check out Blasphemies, the Bale Hounds are due for a change in second edition but until then that has a nice thorough chapter on what it takes to be a Bale Hound and how they aren't just someone who breaks the Oath of the Moon.
    The Pure do have an Oath in place that pretty much entails everything that the Oath of the Moon does minus respecting the Low or not murdering the People ( they do do, but it’s reworded to apply only to fellow Pure). The Pure still adhere to the values of being Uratha... well they try, just like their counterparts.

    But comparing speeding to actively hunting down people and eating them afterwards just doesn’t really fit lol

    I get what you’re saying though.

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  • nofather
    replied
    Originally posted by Korogra View Post
    If they are repeatedly doing it, they are more or less demonstrating that they do not particularly care about upholding the Oath, and are violating the moral values of their people- they may not actively serve them Maeljin ( yet), but the Lords Of the Wounds would definitely take notice and a possible interest in the pack.
    Different werewolves focusing on different aspects of the Oath of the Moon, or in the case of the Pure, paying attention to none of them, is part of the setting. It doesn't make one a Bale Hound any more than speeding makes you a supervillain.

    Check out Blasphemies, the Bale Hounds are due for a change in second edition but until then that has a nice thorough chapter on what it takes to be a Bale Hound and how they aren't just someone who breaks the Oath of the Moon.

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  • Korogra
    replied
    If they are repeatedly doing it, they are more or less demonstrating that they do not particularly care about upholding the Oath, and are violating the moral values of their people- they may not actively serve the Maeljin ( yet), but the Lords Of the Wounds would definitely take notice and a possible interest in the pack.

    And I know what they said, just pointing that out to the person who mentioned eating the invaders xD
    Last edited by Korogra; 11-28-2018, 03:14 PM.

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  • Khanwulf
    replied
    Originally posted by Korogra View Post
    I’m just gonna say that if they are hunting and eating the invaders, they have jumped from trying to justify their hunters instincts to “ I guess we are now all servants of Belphagor” and are now Bale Bale Hounds in spirit if not in name, because they are violating the Oath: arguably something that makes the ethical dilemmas of killing all the sheep or buying burgers from Dairy Queen a nonissue anymore.

    Ok, more literal than needed. As Master Aquatosic points out they don't have to actually eat eat the invaders. They could chase them down, defeat them in glorious battle, and... I dunno. Lick them maybe? Let them go in their undies with stern warnings and then retire to the Hisil to eat spirits? Or a Big Mac?

    Obviously if you're plan is to violate the Oath of the Moon first and manage the situation second, you're not in a sustainable place. I didn't really feel that necessary to point out, previously....

    --Khanwulf

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