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Voice of the Angel (God-Machine)

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  • Voice of the Angel (God-Machine)

    So it is no secret that 2nd edition has a place within the universe for the God-Machine. My question is not if the God-Machine exists, but if the events that supposedly transpired such as in Voice of the Angel (1st edition core admittedly) came to pass. Granted they are two different editions, but I can easily see the story of the history of the world also apply towards 2nd edition unless additional information presents itself to contradict it.

    If the events did happen as told, where would you say Pangaea or the First Children come into play? Being that the Third Children also supposedly existed at this time essentially as immortals as well before the fall of the First Children, would it be fair to say humans also existed at the time of Pangaea and Father Wolf?

    Edit: Come to think of it...I wonder if the God-Machine had anything to do with the creation of spirits as well

  • #2
    In the Sundered World Dark Era, in Dark Eras, we see that the fall of Pangaea occurred at some point in the end of or after the Neolithic Age, which was about 5000 years ago. Humans existed at the same time, the Vinca peoples had settlements in what is now places like Serbia and Bulgaria.

    One of the big theories going around is that the God Machine is Great Mountain, one of the Pangaeans mentioned in this Dark Era, known for gathering people to build things.

    A lot is going to depend on how you see the God Machine. I've never thought of it as something that was before time and has existed since, as much as an entity that created at some point and in order to keep it from being un-created then established itself in other times retroactively.

    Based on the whole 'other peoples gods are demons' point of view a lot of religions bring to the table, as well as the general demonization they face, the Pangaeans and their surviving descendants may be the Second Children.
    Last edited by nofather; 11-28-2018, 05:24 PM.

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    • #3
      That said, it must be noted that Marco Singe is very much insane, and therefore it's a question how much of what he said is actually based on anything.


      Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
      The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
      Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.

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      • #4
        Absolutely. Between his own insanity and angels not exactly being required to tell the truth pretty much everything's up in the air.

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        • #5
          Apparently I need to read Dark Eras since I have not gotten around to them yet. I always assumed probably incorrectly that those books were mostly plot setting books rather than greater lore. Or was my assumption correct?

          Regardless, even if Marco is insane and the the angels not being required to tell the truth, it is still an interesting piece of story lore that I felt really captured the World of Darkness feeling.

          As for the God-Machine itself, since I am not running a Demon game, I am trying to find ways to incorporate it without going into infrastructure and the like. My feeling at this moment in time is to treat it as an abstract entity as limited or as powerful as it needs to be within the scope of the story, but definitely needing to keep it consistent so it doesn’t become seen as a McGuffin.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Dessembrae View Post
            Apparently I need to read Dark Eras since I have not gotten around to them yet. I always assumed probably incorrectly that those books were mostly plot setting books rather than greater lore. Or was my assumption correct?
            They are plot setting books but in many cases there's a lot of lore. For instance you see mages before Orders, werewolves in Pangaea before tribes were a thing, Promethean lineages that have since died out and so on.

            The Marco Singe testament definitely captures a lot of the essence of the setting.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by nofather View Post
              One of the big theories going around is that the God Machine is Great Mountain, one of the Pangaeans mentioned in this Dark Era, known for gathering people to build things.
              Wait- is that a thing? Never heard that theory before.

              And yeah, if you wish to introduce the God Machine into Forsaken's setting, using the Pangaeans as the Second Children is a good way to start- whatever relationship the old beast gods had with the Machine is up in the air, but I just can't see Father Wolf and the God Machine having friendly relationships. Bull, perhaps, Bird maybe- but Wolf? Far too different in character to work together. Perhaps Bird was the "demon" from the story which taught mankind the secrets of the Black Sun Map in exchange for the death brought by the atomic bombs, as Marco Singe claims? After all, the Perspective does have some weird interest in nuclear energy. Funny how things work out, ah?


              My Homebrew Signature

              "And all our knowledge is, Ourselves to know"- An Essay on Man

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              • #8
                Well one of the hallmarks of a good story is how well it can be adapted to different needs depending on who the audience is. Reading it from a Hunter perspective vs a Werewolf perspective as an example produces two very different outcomes

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                • #9
                  Speaking of the GM, is it just assumed that the characters in the Corebook God-Machine Chronicle adventures are some sort of stigmatics, given that they are presumably seeing past concealment infrastructure in at least some of those chapters?


                  A god is just a monster you kneel to. - ArcaneArts, Quoting "Fall of Gods"

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Master Aquatosic View Post
                    Speaking of the GM, is it just assumed that the characters in the Corebook God-Machine Chronicle adventures are some sort of stigmatics, given that they are presumably seeing past concealment infrastructure in at least some of those chapters?
                    Nope. Most often, they cheat explicit concealment infrastructure by following the weirdness that it can't cover back in and through the Linchpin in some form or fashion.

                    Like, they can't see past the perception filter that demons can inherently see through, but they can still notice when a man with a funny hat pops in and out of a wall.


                    Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                    The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                    Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
                      Nope. Most often, they cheat explicit concealment infrastructure by following the weirdness that it can't cover back in and through the Linchpin in some form or fashion.

                      Like, they can't see past the perception filter that demons can inherently see through, but they can still notice when a man with a funny hat pops in and out of a wall.
                      You mean that doesn't happen in your day to day life?

                      As it currently stands with the God-Machine I am trying to work into my chronicle and what caused me to even think of this post, I am treating it as in some way shape or form as being responsible for the fall of Father Wolf/Pangaea. For reasons only known to its' clockwork machinations, it required the energy/resonance/trauma from the shattering of the Border Marches into the separate worlds. Many decades/centuries/millenea of tiny events each leading to bigger and bigger events transpired before the pendulum finally swung and the Uratha tore out Father Wolf's throat.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Dessembrae View Post
                        You mean that doesn't happen in your day to day life?

                        As it currently stands with the God-Machine I am trying to work into my chronicle and what caused me to even think of this post, I am treating it as in some way shape or form as being responsible for the fall of Father Wolf/Pangaea. For reasons only known to its' clockwork machinations, it required the energy/resonance/trauma from the shattering of the Border Marches into the separate worlds. Many decades/centuries/millenea of tiny events each leading to bigger and bigger events transpired before the pendulum finally swung and the Uratha tore out Father Wolf's throat.
                        Sure, perfectly feasible.

                        You've got some scale to work with, mind, depending on if you want to tip the balance at a critical moment or have it be a long standing plan come to fruition-the latter could easily see humanity's growth into agriculture that weakened Wolf to begin with. The former could incarnate any number of ways at tense tipping points where something else could have been done to revive the Great Predator-tying into Gilgamesh and a story that feels an awful lot like a God-Machine move*, maybe Snake was going to intervene before something happened to her.

                        *The story of King Arthur and Mordred's final conflict has a moment where something other than their final conflict could have happpened, where they and their arrayed soldiers met on the battlefield to negotiate. Tensions are high as the two meet. The conversation starts and maybe, just maybe, something could have been reconciled....except, at that time, there was a snake that reared to strike the ankle of a soldier. Not that big of a deal, except a soldier drew their sword to cut it down, and in that scenario, one sword drawn in a sea of itchy knights basically sparked the whole shindig, and fate happens.

                        The snake's involvement is totally a God-Machine move.


                        Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                        The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                        Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.

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                        • #13
                          Minimal effort, for maximum results.


                          Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
                          Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Dessembrae View Post
                            Apparently I need to read Dark Eras since I have not gotten around to them yet. I always assumed probably incorrectly that those books were mostly plot setting books rather than greater lore. Or was my assumption correct?
                            The Sundered World is a bit unusual in this respect because it's set before the Sundering, and hence gives additional insight and material into the pre-Sundering situation.

                            Some other Eras do have some overall setting lore additions featured, but it varies from Era to Era. Both of the Eras involving Forsaken that I've contributed to for Dark Eras 2, for example, will feature some lore-relevant content for the game, but both are quite ignorable without the setting particularly losing out.


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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
                              That said, it must be noted that Marco Singe is very much insane, and therefore it's a question how much of what he said is actually based on anything.
                              True, but like any (potential) Stigmatic, for every word of maddening ramble, there might be a glimpse of prophesy between them.

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