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Doing First Tongue Translations

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  • Dalu has claws, though

    I'm So Meta Even This Acronym


    • Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
      Or maybe first First Tongue glyphs ( ) were claw-based, but modern Uratha used their finger-painting also, so they would be easier to read and reproduce by Hishu and Dalu forms?
      Originally posted by Thorbes View Post
      Dalu has claws, though
      Hishu still do not have claws, so maybe glyphs are made to be used in human form - maybe to write books and not tear those in Dalu small raging.

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      • Wyrdhamster's onto something here. I imagine the earliest glyphs were scratched out via claws, but as writing became more accessible and social dynamics changed post-Sundering, wolfbloods and those close to the wolves probably were taught the glyphs so that communication could be easier. The painted form then became the norm.


        • So it turns out I have to go back and redo the Z-section I did because I might have translated too many words. That means about only 3 pages or less the work I've restarted is useful. This is going to take me a while.

          On the plus side, here are some translations of things I found in a Proto-Indo-European dictionary, and concepts there also exist in Sumerian! There are about 2000-3000 words there that I can say are the original words of First Tongue, and I can go on from there to invent new words and add in words the devs have in canon. Those I can also say are the original. Words in Sumerian that I don't translate are because I see those as "new words" that evolved in Sumerian, not in the original spirit tongue, unless the devs go ahead and decide to Uremehirify them.

          a: water, bodily fluids; sperm or ejaculate; one’s progeny, children; the spawn or eggs of animals such as fish or frogs

          idh: a river, brook, stream; a watercourse or canal; a geographic feature consisting of a flow of water with a source and a place it empties out to or ends at

          kaskur: the apple tree and its fruit eat

          ul: to be fast, quick; to hasten

          sar: to be of a speedy gait or movement; to run fast; to move quickly; writing, inscriptions; to write; words

          shu: a hand or hand-like limb; the front feet of an animal

          kubh: a foot or foot-like limb; the back feet of an animal

          ni: fear, fearsomeness; to be frightening

          ni ri’i: to inspire fear; to frighten, startle, spook; to drive or move (as if driving or moving cattle); to goad, to herd

          ri’i: to cry out, to wail; to complain, to bemoan

          hunitha: spelt, dinkel wheat, hulled wheat

          thurak: a goat, whether wild or tamed

          uth: the sun, Helios; daylight

          iduth: the moon, Luna; moonlight

          saghba: oath, promise

          ghirith: to wail, to cry; to be in absolute tears; to be sad, sobbing

          tura: illness, disease; to become ill

          ghirith-tura: depression; to be in a depressed state; clinical depression or a hypomanic state

          akaan: vomit, sputum, bile

          dhe: to bring; to carry

          im: rain or a rain storm

          sus: cloud cover; cloudy weather

          luha: sin, crime; to be guilty of something; a fault, a bad trait

          alal: a field; acreage; cultivated land

          lafras: a large axe; a battleaxe; a war axe

          nihhul: a hatchet; a small axe

          sila: a lamb; a baby sheep

          sum: to give

          zila: a fragment, a piece; a portion of something

          kuf: to swing

          duku: to rock, shift; to vibrate; to move violently back and forth, as the ground in an earthquake would

          sahla: pity, mercy

          sagh: the head

          ihi: the eyes

          luha-ihi: to be guilty, ashamed; guilt, shame; to have a guilty look or expression

          an: sky, heaven, the firmament; highest, high; the top, crown, or highest point of something like a tree or other tall structure

          zalah: to be pure, clear, free of taint or blemish; to be bright or shining; the light from a fire, especially a sacred one

          zal: shine, brightness, luminosity; a noble, a high-ranking figure; to be noble, great, admired; to get up early, to rise with the sun; sunrise, daybreak

          ilar: a javelin; a throwing spear; a spear

          asde: the point or tip of an animal’s horn; a sharp point, arrowhead or spearhead

          gifir: a spit; a pike

          unu: a stick; a piece of wood

          se: to call by name; to address; to call to

          kaskum: ore or metal in general (instead of a particular metal)

          sas: grass, turf; pasture, grazing

          as: a wish, a desire; a need or want; something that is asked for or requested

          ne: to respect, to take heed of

          sehe: to honour, to hold as higher than oneself; to agree, consent to or to be in agreement with; to obey or be obedient to

          sis: to be bitter or brackish-tasting

          gizura: to be angular, sharply-shaped; to have a sharp edge; a blade, a knife

          zuna: flint; a piece of flint

          zi: life, soul; one’s vitality or vital force

          amahan: a mother or maternal figure

          aya: a father or paternal figure

          ama: mama, mommy, ma, mum

          a'ia: papa, daddy, da, pops

          er: tears, weeping; mourning, grief; to mourn; to weep

          lugha: damage, destruction; injury; to be hurt or injured

          lugur: stranger, lurker; alien, strange; foreign, foreigner

          kurum: to burn; to be set alight; to be charred, scorched

          izi: fire, flame

          fulukh: to raise, to nourish; to grow something; to rear a child

          ara: to mill something; to grind something with a mortar and pestle, as supposed to chewing something down into a paste

          babhar: to be white, leucistic; the colour white

          e: barley

          urin: to guard, protect; to be vigilant

          sam: price, value

          sabhu: to gain; to earn; things gained, earnings

          zurzhur: to care for, to attend to (a spirit, patron, ancestor, sacred space, etc.); to honour; to worship, to serve (a deity, totem or other higher power)

          zum: to spin, to revolve, to orbit (around a fixed point)

          dub: to go around; to surround; to encircle; to put at the centre of a circle

          huru: to cut down, to chop down; to trim, to prune; to cut up, to slice; to mow

          affa: elder, senior; an ancestor

          bhar: the outside, outer edge, outer; the other side, the far side; beyond, elsewhere

          nu: nope, nothing, no

          nuihi: blind, eyeless; sightless, unseeing; to not see, to be unable to see

          ghi: night, night-time

          za’al: day, daytime

          uz: a wild duck or goose

          ghu: to eat, to devour, to consume

          ghaz: to grind or grate down; to turn into a powder or paste

          zu: a tooth, a fang; the share of a plow; the point of a battering ram; the blade of a hoe; a poetic term for a sharp point; to know something or gain knowledge

          segh: snow, frost, ice; cold weather, wintry weather; sleet, hail, freezing rain; chills, shivers; to be cold or freezing

          la: to hang, balance, suspend, be suspended

          lal: small, diminutive, little; a small amount of something; insignificant, of low value or worth; runty

          laal: to be bound together tightly; to be yoked together, a yoked team; a binding or something meant to keep two things assuredly together; to press or throttle; to winnow grain

          lah: to weigh something, to test the weight of; to weigh out a measurement of something; to supervise or check on something, especially with a careful eye

          khur: to be thick; to be swollen, swelling in size; to be firm, turgid

          kenfur: stem, stalk

          thuful: to sprout, to grow (as a plant does); to bloom, to blossom (as a flower does)

          gukgu: to dim, obscure or darken; a dark, poorly-lit or shadowy place; conditions in which it is difficult to see (usually because of lighting conditions)

          kaf: to be bitter or bittersweet; to have a sharp or strong taste

          sim: to smell or sniff

          ir: scent, smell, fragrance, perfume; sweat, exudation; the scent of something

          muz: a dangerous snake or serpent, such as a viper or poisonous sea snake

          mirska: a ferocious dragon or large, serpentine creature, such as a lindworm or sea serpent

          usum: a snake or sea serpent, including a harmless one

          ghubhi: an eel

          na: rock, stone, pebble

          sigi: wool, fur, animal hair; an animal pelt

          kus: skin, leather; an animal skin or furless animal pelt

          lagkha: a scaly or reptilian hide or skin; slag, remains of ore processing, scoria; psoriasis, eczema, dry or scaly skin
          Last edited by Sikla Alkis; 12-23-2017, 10:57 PM.


          • Do you have any idea what a centipede host would be called? I'm thinking something like hundred-handed or maybe something involving venom?

            I was incorporating the crow host into a new game and found that they share a name, Halaku, with one of the Houses in Demon the Fallen. I thought it might have been that they weren't a First Tongue term but was told they were and Thorbes pointed out they might just happen to have the same word in different languages. So I'm sort of curious if any other wnames from Demon have an overlap. Are there any translations for Namaru, Asharu, Annunaki, Neberu, Lammasu, and Rabisu?

            For that matter, Anakim, Eshmaki, Makara, Namtaru and Ugallu, which you may recognize from Beast.
            Last edited by nofather; 02-25-2018, 09:21 PM.


            • Looking to make a Spirit Noble of Phrenology. Idea is that it tries to get people to believe in phrenology and act on its conclusions about human nature. Was thinking of calling it either Shaper-of-Minds or Measurer-of-Minds. How would I translate this?

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                • What would “the Loquacious One” be in the First Tongue?

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                  • I’m no specialist of the First Tongue, but I’d propose Kilituf Sa’ak.

                    Sa’ak is composed of sa («advice, counsel, gathered intelligence or knowledge ») and a’ak (« advise, command, teach »). « Kilituf rih », as a turn of phrase, means « to eat beyond the point of being sated because you love the food so much.». So Kilituf Sa’ak would mean something along the lines of "The One that is Extremely Eager to Share Its Acquired Knowledge", which conveys the idea of being loquacious.

                    EDIT: Nam’ge-Bhu’uskir (The One That is Profuse With / Speaks Abundantly in Words of Perfect Knowledge) could also work well for the Loquacious Grimoire.

                    Bhu'u = translating roughly as "perfect knowledge", it refers to concepts, ideas and knowledge that is only passed around the upper tiers of secret orders, respected fellowships and society in general — the most guarded secrets of the Ordo Dracul count as bhu'u
                    Last edited by Adrasalieth; 06-02-2018, 05:51 PM.


                    • Does anyone have some First Tongue names that might mean Kraken or massive creatures with a similar cephalopodic nature?


                      • I don't suppose there's a google doc or pdf of the compiled lexicon & grammar?

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                        • yes? There's the google spreadsheet I created for starters, which uses a Sumerian dictionary and applies the sound change to each word. So that's a good start. And I've linked to a couple of fan documents created by Sikla Alkis (iirc) on the first sheet of the spreadsheet - these documents show the compiled words and perhaps grammar Sikla Aklis uses (up to whatever point they got distracted by other things, anyway).

                          Hope that helps!

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                          • Originally posted by nikink View Post
                            yes? There's the google spreadsheet I created for starters, which uses a Sumerian dictionary and applies the sound change to each word. So that's a good start. And I've linked to a couple of fan documents created by Sikla Alkis (iirc) on the first sheet of the spreadsheet - these documents show the compiled words and perhaps grammar Sikla Aklis uses (up to whatever point they got distracted by other things, anyway).

                            Hope that helps!
                            Found it, thanks!

                            I even got a citation! What a way to start a Monday!

                            Check out Momentum Exalted!


                            • I've got a request for a translation: Pilgrim.

                              Just for context, Moinen came up with an idea for a Mage style merit that's basically a diet Scelestus. No Befouling, just protection from their own released Paradox. I'm trying to come up with a term regular Scelesti can use to differentiate between Rabashakim and these guys who really aren't part of the ziggurat of antinomian magic. I'm leaning more towards "pilgrim" because it fits with the religious overtones of "cupbearer." And you just don't call potential recruits "marks" or "rubes."


                              • KageMCS

                                ​Id' propose either one (or both) of these:

                                A) Thirik-Harmathakhdul ("Extensive Traveller of the Fallen World")

                                It mimics the distinction made by Werewolves and spirits between the title of Gurihathakhdul ("one that has extensively travelled the Gurihal, the physical world of the Flesh") and this of Hisithakhdul ("one that has extensively travelled the Shadow"), but emphasizes on the world as it is Fallen (thirik: to fall, to collapse, to disintegrate; Thirik-Harmatha: the Fallen World).

                                The reason for this emphasis in the case of an almost-but-not-quite-Scelesti is evident, though its exact implications are not that clear. Perhaps it cynically implies that Pilgrims are the only non-Scelesti mages that have seen enough of the Fallen World to understand how irremediably sundered from the Supernal it was, which makes them lucid enough to deal with the reality of the Fall rather than keep up vain and delusional pretenses of avoiding anything Abyssal. Unless it simply underlines that this reality Falls even lower everywhere a Pilgrim treads.

                                B) Yageken-Thun ("Travellers of the Void").

                                (same construction as Illusah-Thun, "the Travellers of Watery Trails", aka Riverkin)

                                While "Yageken" (hole, void) is simply the First Tongue term for the Abyss,"thun" can either indicate the notion of travel ("to move, to travel; to place elsewhere") or the idea of digging, rocking, or churning around. So Yageken-Thun could also be understood as "Those who Displace the Void" or "Hole Diggers".
                                Last edited by Adrasalieth; 10-08-2018, 07:40 AM.