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  • From 1e to 2e?

    I am thinking about picking up 2e.

    What have been the major changes?


    "No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream." - Shirley Jackson

  • #2
    There's a bunch, here's a post that got into it.

    Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
    Um. A lot.

    Obviously the change over to the 2e nWOD ruleset (which is fully in the WtF 2e core book, you don't need to buy anything else), which you can get a free preview of with the free download of the God-Machine Chronicles Rules Update (GMCRU) pdf. Conditions and Tilts in particular were integrated strongly into Forsaken 2e.

    The biggest thematic change is refocusing on werewolves as hunters. It frames a lot of the game.

    Auspices now have a "Hunter's Aspect" which lets them inflict Conditions on targets they're hunting appropriate to their Auspice (so the Cahalith one terrifies prey into being the victim of the hunt, while the Irraka one makes them oblivious to the hunt about to strike them). The Auspice powers are generally a bit more potent.

    Harmony has completely reworked to emphasize balance. The "ideal" is now 5 instead of 10, with 10 and1 being extremes that come with drawbacks (though can be worth heading towards sometimes. You don't spend XP on Harmony, if you want to move in a direction you act more appropriately towards it. It's also not the base-line for dice-pools any more.

    Renown has more oomph so it feels worth having on it's own, rather than just a gate on your Gifts. A big factor is the ability to flair your Renown (another Condition generator) that encourages your pack to challenge you're skills, but drives you to perform even better.

    Packs themselves are more broad now, with Wolf-blooded and humans being part of packs by default (even in human members aren't always in the know of what they're involved with).

    Wolf-Blooded are much more variable, each coming in with a Tell, that defines a drawback of their wolf-blood, but also provides them a useful power. Wolf-blooded can also be generated by exposing normal humans to Lunacy.

    Death rage is now a two stage process, with a "soft" starting point and the "hard" full on death rage slaughter-fest. Packs need to be careful since death rage can be emotionally infectious within the pack setting off a chain reaction. Triggers and how long the soft phase lasts before you completely freak out are based on Harmony.

    Unihar are out. Werewolves can have kids without any spiritual consequences.

    Gifts and Rites have been reworked considerably. Auspice-specific (Moon) Gifts mostly work like they used to (1-5 powers) but you get them automatically when you get more Renown. Shadow Gifts (most of the standard Gifts) are not 1-5 powers, but five powers clustered around a theme; one for each Renown called a Facet. When you buy a Gift, you unlock access to its five Facets if you have the Renown for them. Wolf Gifts are unlocked automatically so you can get the Facets more easily/cheaper than Shadow Gifts. Facets generally scale with their associated Renown (including Moon Gift Facets).

    Rites aren't treated like Gifts and are simply bought with XP, and everyone starts with some. Rites are also not restricted solely to Uratha. Some are pack rites that are available to the right Wolf-blooded (but benefit anyone associate that's part of the pack).

    The Sacred Hunt rite is also a very key aspect (though not essential) to the game. Each Tribe has a favored prey and gets special perks for calling the Sacred Hunt on that prey.

    All the five forms have more distinct purposes and benefits.

    And more...
    Lodges are very different as well (this came up in the expansion, the Pack). Each offers a blessing, a natural ability to the lodge member, as well as a different Sacred Hunt bonus for when they run the Sacred Hunt. They also shifted in focus along with werewolves as a whole to be more 'about the hunt' rather than just niche interest groups. The example lodges show how they can zero in on a specific kind of prey or a way to hunt (terrifying enemies, in the way of the Screaming Moon, or hunting on the road with the Thousand Steel Teeth). The lodges are situated more like cults, as well, expanding on the religious angle of werewolf tribes and allowing different sects and schisms and completely alien beliefs.

    There's also the confirmation of Father Wolf in Dark Eras, the existence of the Pangaeans and Pangaea, and the remnants of their souls in the form of omphalos stones. Shunned by the Moon, an upcoming book, is expanding on the Pure and converting the Bale Hounds to second edition, as well as adding some mutations for ghost wolves to fall into.

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    • #3
      Wow, that is a lot. Most of it sounds like for the better.

      Do the forms still have durations limits? Does "war" form still automatically induce rage?


      "No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream." - Shirley Jackson

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Shenron View Post
        Do the forms still have durations limits? Does "war" form still automatically induce rage?
        Only Gauru (the killing form, the one that is the middle mix of man and wolf). You can stay in it for Stamina + Primal Urge, with assorted other things giving you more time. After that, you either shift out or stay in and go rage (though there's more ways to control who you're raging against in second edition). There's also an ability, Father's Form, that lets you maintain Gauru form indefinitely providing you aren't jumping in fights, though you don't gain the superior healing of the form.

        The benefits are particularly wild for gauru, with regeneration of all Bashing and Lethal damage each turn.

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        • #5
          It's worth noting there's a distinction between Rage and Kuruth/Death Rage in the game.

          Rage is the drive to defeat all foes around you, forcing you to attack or close on targets unless you roll to control yourself.

          Kuruth is a process by which you completely lose yourself to violence over time until you either snap out of it/get snapped out of it, or you go on a murder rampage.

          They overlap considerably as they directly interact with each other, but they're not identical either.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by nofather View Post

            Only Gauru (the killing form, the one that is the middle mix of man and wolf). You can stay in it for Stamina + Primal Urge, with assorted other things giving you more time. After that, you either shift out or stay in and go rage (though there's more ways to control who you're raging against in second edition). There's also an ability, Father's Form, that lets you maintain Gauru form indefinitely providing you aren't jumping in fights, though you don't gain the superior healing of the form.

            The benefits are particularly wild for gauru, with regeneration of all Bashing and Lethal damage each turn.
            Ah ok. That really does improve it. Is the rage they go in after the time is up and they choose to continue the normal rage or death rage?

            Wow all bashing and lethal per turn. That is pretty epic.

            Is the Fathers form ability a gift? A merit? If one possesses this ability can the choose to go the traditional Gauru form?

            What is regenerating like in other forms?

            Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
            It's worth noting there's a distinction between Rage and Kuruth/Death Rage in the game.

            Rage is the drive to defeat all foes around you, forcing you to attack or close on targets unless you roll to control yourself.

            Kuruth is a process by which you completely lose yourself to violence over time until you either snap out of it/get snapped out of it, or you go on a murder rampage.

            They overlap considerably as they directly interact with each other, but they're not identical either.
            This is actually a great idea and makes a lot more sense to me.
            Last edited by Shenron; 05-06-2019, 04:07 PM.


            "No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream." - Shirley Jackson

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Shenron View Post
              Is the Fathers form ability a gift? A merit? If one possesses this ability can the choose to go the traditional Gauru form?
              It's a Wolf Gift (basically a werewolf only supernatural Merit, they're weaker than other Gifts but tend to allow for more customization). You can still go normal gauru.

              What is regenerating like in other forms?
              You regenerate a certain amount of Bashing per turn, based on your Primal Urge. From there, you can spend 1 Essence to turn that turn of regeneration to heal Lethal instead. There's powers that let you fidget around with this, like Black Earth, Red Hunger, which lets you heal Lethal as if you spent Essence as long as someone has been injured in the affected area that turn

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              • #8
                Originally posted by nofather View Post

                It's a Wolf Gift (basically a werewolf only supernatural Merit, they're weaker than other Gifts but tend to allow for more customization). You can still go normal gauru.



                You regenerate a certain amount of Bashing per turn, based on your Primal Urge. From there, you can spend 1 Essence to turn that turn of regeneration to heal Lethal instead. There's powers that let you fidget around with this, like Black Earth, Red Hunger, which lets you heal Lethal as if you spent Essence as long as someone has been injured in the affected area that turn
                That's really cool. I think all I have read has been a huge improvement over 1e.


                "No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream." - Shirley Jackson

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Shenron View Post
                  That's really cool. I think all I have read has been a huge improvement over 1e.
                  I'm glad to hear that. As someone who was won over to the 'of Darkness' games by Forsaken 1e, I also find 2e to be a huge improvement.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by nofather View Post

                    I'm glad to hear that. As someone who was won over to the 'of Darkness' games by Forsaken 1e, I also find 2e to be a huge improvement.
                    1e was actually one of the games that I wasn't impressed with when it came out. I loved the fluff but I felt the machanics lacked.

                    2e is really impressing me though


                    "No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream." - Shirley Jackson

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      One thing I really liked about 2e over 1e is actually the description of the Tribes. I don't feel like much of anything changed about the tribes, but the descriptions give a much better impression of how different tribes interact, where their strengths are, what they do night to night etc etc. After reading the 5 tribes, I really felt more comfortable with werewolves and what they spend their time doing.
                      The shapeshifting also feels more organic and intuitive. Again, not much changed, other than Gauru getting buffed, it just feels more complete. Like a better version of itself.
                      I also liked the changes to how you buy Gifts and their Facets, it's easier to mix and match and create some really interested combinations.
                      The new Harmony system I really like as well with the balance between flesh and spirit instead of a moral code of conduct. (You still have that, it just works differently than other splats)

                      In Summary, don't think about getting 2e, if you haven't already, just get it. Even if you just buy the PDF. If you liked 1e, I can't see you not liking 2e even more.

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                      • #12
                        Buy it. It's a masterpiece.


                        -'' We are the unsullied.
                        We are the inheritors.
                        We are the Pure ''-

                        I'm the guy who draws werewolves.

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                        • #13
                          Mechanically it has changed a lot for the better, as has been explained. Story wise it is fundamentally unchanged, the core pieces of the settings history and events are more or less how they are in first ed; though in a true parallel universe sort of fashion many particulars are different, as well as a more in depth explaination of the nature of the spiritual world and the revelation of several ground shaking truths of the Uratha’s past and potentially the future fate of the species, if certain events are allowed to take place.

                          Not to mention a lot of interesting tweaks and expansions on a lot of the Forsaken’s enemies; always a fun thing to look into!


                          In short, it has everything a successive edition needs to give new life to a gameline... well for the most part!
                          Last edited by Korogra; 05-14-2019, 03:34 AM.

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                          • #14
                            The 2nd edition did a lot, and I mean a LOT, to make Forsaken stand on its own compared to Apocalypse.

                            Why do Uratha join tribes, an issue that a lot of people had asked for a good reason, was answered. Each tribe has its own special prey they hunt. Going into the uratha as hunters more than warriors.

                            Uratha can breed with one another now, and Wolf-blooded are no longer just sorta-related to the uratha but their own type of supernatural thing. This avoid them being treated like kinfolk was in WtA.

                            The pack is now like a three-stage cult to which ANYONE can join, even othere supernaturals. This basically allows you to do fun crossovers if you want to.

                            Then there is the focus, The Hunt. Called Siskur-Dah by the uratha, the hunt is a sacred thing for the werewolves. When they Hunt, they can mold the area around them to aid in the hunt. It is really cool how the hunt becomes their purpose and it, once more, makes the uratha VERY different from the garou.

                            Another thing is the updated Harmony. The old Harmony for me was basically an OOC morality scale telling who was just and who not, especially when it came to the Pure. In 2nd ed, Harmony is a scale between spirit and human and it fluctuates. So middle ground is good, either extreme is bad.


                            My gallery.

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                            • #15
                              I also am still stuck with the 1e. I wish I had both the money and space for the new book though, and maybe I will someday, but for now I'm just going to have to be lean with what I purchase. That said, all of the new changes sound great though, and I'm just going to homebrew some of the new ideas into my old edition. Sticking new parts on an old car, lol.

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