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How do Host/Ridden kill a Gauru without silver?

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  • How do Host/Ridden kill a Gauru without silver?

    Gauru regenerate all bashing and leathal every turn right? I don't know how to challenge the players if they can just change to Gauru and survive without any risk. I think it would get old to only ever endanger them with silver. Am I missing something?


    Offense is rarely given, but often taken.

  • #2
    Gauru form heals all bashing and lethal damage, but not aggravated. So that's one opening. Werewolves also have little recourse to Tilts; bind one up right and they'll just thrash about impotently, in general. Beyond that, sometimes the damage a prey does isn't to the werewolf but to the surrounding community. Beyond beyond that, these things can get pretty frightening, and it's not beyond the game's reach to have antagonists who are capable of delivering one-hit kills, if you're really into that.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by espritdecalmar View Post
      Gauru form heals all bashing and lethal damage, but not aggravated. So that's one opening. Werewolves also have little recourse to Tilts; bind one up right and they'll just thrash about impotently, in general. Beyond that, sometimes the damage a prey does isn't to the werewolf but to the surrounding community. Beyond beyond that, these things can get pretty frightening, and it's not beyond the game's reach to have antagonists who are capable of delivering one-hit kills, if you're really into that.
      But a Host/Ridden cant possibly damage a Gauru enough to bring it to aggravated damage before they regenerate right? It doesn't even cost a Gauru any essence to heal.


      Offense is rarely given, but often taken.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by K9ine View Post
        Gauru regenerate all bashing and leathal every turn right? I don't know how to challenge the players if they can just change to Gauru and survive without any risk. I think it would get old to only ever endanger them with silver. Am I missing something?

        It might be helpful to think around the problem. A werewolf that goes into Gauru is bringing out their biggest weapon for a fight, but Gauru has a great weakness to it and that is the time limit. And to beat a weapon that has a time limit, you just need to wait it out. You can do this by, well... RUN. Play out the timer, dodge through territory you know, and wait for the werewolf to be forced out of Gauru. Another method to waiting out the timer is to keep the werewolf distracted, such as with sacrificial mooks. They'll likely be killed, but every action a werewolf has to spend chewing through cannon fodder is an action the werewolf isn't going for your throat.

        These methods can help build tension based upon that timer, and also still allow a player to feel like their character is a badass monster that IS a threat to be feared.

        There's probably some other solutions, too.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by espritdecalmar View Post
          Werewolves also have little recourse to Tilts; bind one up right and they'll just thrash about impotently, in general.
          Werewolves heal personal Tilts when they heal the wound that causes them so... this isn't really going to work for the Gauru issue unless you Tilt them with an attack that does Agg.


          Originally posted by K9ine View Post
          But a Host/Ridden cant possibly damage a Gauru enough to bring it to aggravated damage before they regenerate right?
          A single one? Probably not. A group of them? Easily. The Gauru form doesn't heal all damage as it's done, but once a turn. So if enough small hits come in to roll it over from Lethal to Agg damage, the Agg sticks around when regeneration kicks in. Rinse and repeat and the werewolf goes down for good. This is especially dangerous for Uratha relying on Gauru because their Rage drives them to keep attacking even if they're at risk of building up Agg damage from roll over.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by K9ine View Post
            But a Host/Ridden cant possibly damage a Gauru enough to bring it to aggravated damage before they regenerate right? It doesn't even cost a Gauru any essence to heal.
            They can. Hosts don't really have an upper limit with power. Eventually they become gods in the flesh, potentially something like Ariadne, who could destroy your average gauru in one shot. Well before that, though, you're dealing with things like the Red Minister from the second edition core, with a dicepool of 12, +3 natural weapons, and a variety of allies. The goal from a mechanical standpoint is to do 'roll over' damage. So much Lethal that you roll over into Aggravated. Since a werewolf regenerates their Lethal and Bashing once a turn, on their turn, you have every attack between their turn adding to that rollover. The weaker the host you're dealing with, the more cunning you have to be, which is why those at the soul shard level tend to focus on traps, social influences, and swarms, as seen in the second edition core's fiction.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Paradim View Post


              It might be helpful to think around the problem. A werewolf that goes into Gauru is bringing out their biggest weapon for a fight, but Gauru has a great weakness to it and that is the time limit. And to beat a weapon that has a time limit, you just need to wait it out. You can do this by, well... RUN. Play out the timer, dodge through territory you know, and wait for the werewolf to be forced out of Gauru. Another method to waiting out the timer is to keep the werewolf distracted, such as with sacrificial mooks. They'll likely be killed, but every action a werewolf has to spend chewing through cannon fodder is an action the werewolf isn't going for your throat.

              These methods can help build tension based upon that timer, and also still allow a player to feel like their character is a badass monster that IS a threat to be feared.

              There's probably some other solutions, too.
              This is something I've been considering thanks.


              Offense is rarely given, but often taken.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by nofather View Post

                They can. Hosts don't really have an upper limit with power. Eventually they become gods in the flesh, potentially something like Ariadne, who could destroy your average gauru in one shot. Well before that, though, you're dealing with things like the Red Minister from the second edition core, with a dicepool of 12, +3 natural weapons, and a variety of allies. The goal from a mechanical standpoint is to do 'roll over' damage. So much Lethal that you roll over into Aggravated. Since a werewolf regenerates their Lethal and Bashing once a turn, on their turn, you have every attack between their turn adding to that rollover. The weaker the host you're dealing with, the more cunning you have to be, which is why those at the soul shard level tend to focus on traps, social influences, and swarms, as seen in the second edition core's fiction.
                I kind of had this idea of a Belishu last stand that was slightly stronger than the red minister from the book. He knew he was gonna die but filled the path with traps and was a boss fight at the end.


                Offense is rarely given, but often taken.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post

                  Werewolves heal personal Tilts when they heal the wound that causes them so... this isn't really going to work for the Gauru issue unless you Tilt them with an attack that does Agg.




                  A single one? Probably not. A group of them? Easily. The Gauru form doesn't heal all damage as it's done, but once a turn. So if enough small hits come in to roll it over from Lethal to Agg damage, the Agg sticks around when regeneration kicks in. Rinse and repeat and the werewolf goes down for good. This is especially dangerous for Uratha relying on Gauru because their Rage drives them to keep attacking even if they're at risk of building up Agg damage from roll over.
                  Even a single one can cause some lasting damage... During Part 2 of the Manitou Springs quickstart (using 2nd edition rules) I had the hunter claimed deal out a whooping 9 lethal damage with a shotgun against a werewolf in dalu form. Stacking with some lethal damage he already had from a previous turn, he went in to 2 AGG, which forced him to essence-spend to Gauru his next turn or risk passing out

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by K9ine View Post
                    I kind of had this idea of a Belishu last stand that was slightly stronger than the red minister from the book. He knew he was gonna die but filled the path with traps and was a boss fight at the end.
                    That's a good way to handle it. Though having multiple smaller enemies can help, too. Every time you use Defense in a turn, you get a -1 penalty to it for the next time that turn that can stack enough to bring Defense to 0.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by nofather View Post

                      That's a good way to handle it. Though having multiple smaller enemies can help, too. Every time you use Defense in a turn, you get a -1 penalty to it for the next time that turn that can stack enough to bring Defense to 0.
                      Forgot about that rule. I was thinking of giving him some shard spawn too, but too many characters in one fight can be hard to run.


                      Offense is rarely given, but often taken.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by endou_kenji View Post

                        Even a single one can cause some lasting damage... During Part 2 of the Manitou Springs quickstart (using 2nd edition rules) I had the hunter claimed deal out a whooping 9 lethal damage with a shotgun against a werewolf in dalu form. Stacking with some lethal damage he already had from a previous turn, he went in to 2 AGG, which forced him to essence-spend to Gauru his next turn or risk passing out
                        Is Manitou Springs an official thing? Can you summarize it for me? I don't mind spoilers, just want to know if its something I'd be interest in.


                        Offense is rarely given, but often taken.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by K9ine View Post
                          Is Manitou Springs an official thing? Can you summarize it for me? I don't mind spoilers, just want to know if its something I'd be interest in.
                          It's a multi-part demo chronicle for Forsaken 1e. I think it's still on DrivethruRPG.


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                          • #14
                            One of the characters in the new book, the city architect Azlu, has a similar 4 point method of defeating werewolves. It is something like

                            1/ Observe
                            2/ Bind
                            3/ Strike to Kill
                            4/ Flee

                            The earlier posters made sense. If the werewolf goes into Garou form, dodge or flee ( I would say if they go into Kuruth, really run like hell). Once they are out of their war form you can revisit them for more of a "fair fight"

                            In addition, both Ridden and Hosts have knowledge of Werewolves. They can be similar to many hunter compacts and just invest a few hundred dollars in a shotgun and silver buckshot (which can be bought over the internet by the way), to even the odds.

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                            • #15
                              An area with traps can take advantage of a werewolf in gauru form. Since they need to attack something near them, or approach something to attack, you could 'bait' them into pits with spikes or other dangers. Though I do warn that werewolves have abilities to let them detect traps.

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