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[Feedback Requested] Gift Of The Wyrd

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  • [Feedback Requested] Gift Of The Wyrd

    I like the mechanics of Gifts, but my knowledge on Werewolf as a whole isn't the deepest. Do these Facets make sense for their respective Renown types, and what might their precise mechanics look like? Also, how might a Werewolf acquire this Gift? Would the Uratha have stories of Luna and the Wyrd making a bargain?

    Wisdom: Web Of Stories
    The Uratha has a sixth sense for the twists of fate and narrative conventions present in fairy tales and fiction as a whole. With a moment's concentration, he can recognize the patterns between them and put his knowledge to practical use.
    (Dice Pool: Wits + Academics + Wisdom)

    Cunning: Rebuke The Faustian
    The Uratha always knows when someone is trying to fool him into making a bargain, oath or contract. Not only that, he can slip free of such shackles and impose his own binding terms onto those who would try to outsmart him.
    (Dice Pool: Wits + Occult + Cunning)

    Purity: Sacred Hospitality
    The Uratha can mark his territory as a place of comfort and safety, where no violent or deceitful acts may take place. Any festivities, celebrations and other special occasions that take place therein become all the better for negotiations and diplomacy.
    (Dice Pool: Manipulation + Socialize + Purity)

    Honor: Thorns And Brambles
    The Uratha makes it so that the target utterly vanishes upon entering a specific location, reappearing elsewhere at a specific time with no recollection of what happened.
    (Dice Pool: Manipulation + Subterfuge + Honor)

    Glory: Quicksilver Dreams
    The Uratha blurs the lines between the waking and imaginary worlds, weaving chimerical and wondrous illusions with psychosomatic effects. Those who are afflicted can be driven mad or enraptured as the Uratha sees fit.
    (Dice Pool: Presence + Occult + Glory)
    Last edited by GibberingEloquence; 02-24-2020, 11:09 AM.


    Let Him Speak.

  • #2
    Originally posted by GibberingEloquence View Post
    Also, how might a Werewolf acquire this Gift? Would the Uratha have stories of Luna and the Wyrd making a bargain?
    I assume this is a Shadow Gift. Shadow Gifts are gained through dealing with spirits, so it would require a spirit with a compatible nature. A spirit of fairy tales or something. This would, however, not have more connection to the Wyrd than, say, a fairy tale written by a mundane human. If you do want a direct connection, then there would be some special circumstances involved.

    Cunning: Do you mean mundane or supernatural oaths/bargains? If the latter, then just skip the dice pool and have it be a Clash of Wills.

    Honor: If you switch this to Purity, I'd design something that works within the pack's territory. Otherwise it feels a lot more like it's a Cunning Facet (similar to the one in Gift of Warding).

    Purity: Gifts are fundamentally the werewolves' own spiritual power expressed through the nature of the spirit who imparted the Gift. As such I don't think it's fitting to prevent violence as that clashes with the nature of werewolves. Preventing deception (by penalising rolls) or punishing lies (by applying some negative Condition), I do like. It could fit as either Purity or Honor, imo.

    Wisdom: You really need to narrow down what "practical use" you're after before I can suggest anything.

    I think Cunning and Wisdom should switch effects.
    Last edited by Tessie; 02-24-2020, 12:26 PM.


    Bloodline: The Stygians
    Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
    Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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    • #3
      Some of these Gifts do things similar to already-existing Gifts.

      But something you may want to look at if you haven't already were the designers intentions when creating them, they were written in two blog posts here for Moon Gifts and here for Moon and Wolf Gifts.

      Also 1e had a Scheherazade's Gift you might take inspiration from. Some of these concepts (Thorns and Brambles) seem like they already exist in current Gifts (Maze Ward or Elodoth Gifts), while others, like Tessie pointed out with Sacred Hospitality, don't feel like they fit quite with Werewolf, or the Wyrd, which seems naturally reactive and changing.

      All that said, they were talking about having Wolf Gifts about adaptation towards other gamelines. Adaptation to the hunt seems to be what werewolves were created for, and the existence of a Gift of the Wyrd totally makes sense.
      Last edited by nofather; 02-24-2020, 01:55 PM.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by nofather View Post
        All that said, they were talking about having Wolf Gifts about adaptation towards other gamelines. Adaptation to the hunt seems to be what werewolves were created for, and the existence of a Gift of the Wyrd totally makes sense.
        I want to point out that all Wolf Gifts either affect the self and/or affect their innate werewolf abilities. They're much more internal than Shadow Gifts, and I don't think any of the suggestions (except Rebuke the Faustian) would fit a Wolf Gift of Wyrd. Instead of applying Wyrd-like effects on the prey, I would have it apply Wyrd-like effects on the self and/or help you hunt Wyrd-like prey or in the Hedge.
        How would a werewolf learn a Gift of Wyrd? It's technically already unlocked and only needs the right circumstances for a werewolf to start developing the Facets. Hunting in the Hedge or buying Changeling Merits like Court Goodwill or Hollow should be enough.


        Bloodline: The Stygians
        Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
        Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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        • #5
          Wolf Gifts can require special circumstances to unlock. From the Wolf Gift blog above, "As inherent aspects of the werewolf, there’s viable design space around requiring a character to find a way of delving deeper into her spiritual power to access it. A Gift of Essence might require the Uratha to undergo strange, alchemical treatments first, perhaps involving buying a representative Merit."

          And yeah Wyrd Gift could require some more-than-contact with the Wyrd, perhaps being part of a motley, eating or hunting with a Huntsman, or spending a sacred hunt in the Hedge like you suggested. I think it would need more than just a Court Goodwill Merit but having that to begin with implies you've done something of substance.

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          • #6
            For mechanics-ish purposes. I'd go the Hedge Ghost route. CtL is already explicit that more than just humans or changelings can form Hedge Ghosts. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me that a spirit that accidentally stumbles (or was dragged) across the Hedge might leave a Ghost that is capable of conferring Gifts. Or maybe the spirit served an odd durance itself.

            I like the Cunning facet you've proposed. Finding loopholes is definitely a Cunning-renown thing, and it fits the purview of Wyrd very well. It might be cleaner, like someone else suggested, to make it a Permanent Clash-of-Wills against supernatural contracts, pledges, geases, oaths, etc.

            I'm struggling to give good advice because I think I'm not really sure what the target goal for this gift is. Wyrd implies oaths, pledges, agreements, etc, but is it meant to be more of an Arcadian thing or generally Changeling-esque gift?


            My ideas are bad and I should feel bad.

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            • #7
              I had a fun go at it last night trying to come up with something I hoped you'd like. It could still use some cleaning up but here's my suggestions at it, trying to preserve as much of your intention as I could:

              Gift of the Wyrd:

              Wisdom of the Fool (Wisdom): Cost: 1 Essence. Action: Reflexive. Dice Pool: Wits + Academics + Wisdom. Having no knowledge of the task at hand, the Uratha chooses to embody the fairy tale narrative of the wise fool.
              When using Gift of the Wyrd, choose a skill in which your character has no skill dots invested.
              Dramatic Failure: Any failure on the next mundane roll using that skill is automatically upgraded to a Dramatic Failure
              Failure: The facet has no effect.
              Success: The Uratha substitutes her Wisdom renown for the selected skill roll, and does not suffer the untrained penalty. This can only affect mundane actions.
              Exceptional Success: In addition to substituting her renown, the roll gains an Exceptional Success on three successes instead of five.

              Lesson of Thorns (Cunning): Cost: None. Duration: Permanent. The Uratha may add her Cunning renown to all rolls to resist coercion. Attempts to impose supernatural coercion (oaths, pledges, geas, destiny, etc.) automatically provoke a Clash of Wills which also benefits from this bonus.

              Oathbreaker's Mantle (Honor): Cost: 1 Essence. Action: Instant. Dice Pool: Presence + Manipulation + Honor. Duration: 1 day.
              Dramatic Failure: The Uratha becomes the victim of the facet, as if it had succeeded with her as the target.
              Failure: The facet has no effect.
              Success: No one trusts the prey. All their attempts to convince, persuade, or coerce automatically fail. Even close family are impacted.
              Exceptional Success: The prey's next failures on Social rolls are automatically upgraded to Dramatic Failures, for a number of rolls equal to the Uratha's Honor renown.

              Quicksilver Dreams (Glory): Cost: 5 Essence. Action: Instant. Dice Pool: None. Duration: 1 Scene.
              Dramatic Failure: The Uratha gains the Confused condition
              Failure: The facet has no effect
              Success: All humans within (Glory * 10 meters) gain the Confused condition
              Exceptional Success: The victims have trouble remembering anything while under the effects of the facet. When the duration expires, affected prey suffer the Uratha's Glory renown as a penalty to recalling events that transpired.

              Still trying to come up with a Purity facet....


              My ideas are bad and I should feel bad.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by GibberingEloquence View Post
                I like the mechanics of Gifts, but my knowledge on Werewolf as a whole isn't the deepest. Do these Facets make sense for their respective Renown types, and what might their precise mechanics look like? Also, how might a Werewolf acquire this Gift? Would the Uratha have stories of Luna and the Wyrd making a bargain?
                So, a Shadow Gift is the particular symbol or concept as interpreted through the savage soul of a werewolf. Presumably, the Wyrd we're talking about here is the Wyrd of Arcadia from C:tL, which is a somewhat narrow theme for a Gift but not unworkable.

                I'll go through these one by one but, in terms of what their precise mechanics might look like, some of them are a bit tricky because it's not clear from the explanation what exactly you're looking for. Figuring out what skills and stats go into a dice pool is a minor, late element of Facet design - indeed some may not have a dice pool at all - whereas the underlying goal of what you want the power to do is a keystone to building its mechanics.

                A werewolf would get this from a spirit of a suitable concept, assuming this is supposed to be a Shadow Gift - if it's a Wolf Gift, it's either automatically unlocked or sits behind an unlock trigger, which would likely be something as straightforward as 'enters the Hedge for the first time'. The Uratha might have stories of Luna and the Wyrd making a bargain - except you don't really make a bargain with the Wyrd, the Wyrd's what weaves into bargains you make with other things - but it'd just be a story, as werewolves don't need special 'permissions' to access Shadow Gifts or the like. If a werewolf can manifest these powers, it comes about without needing the agreement or pacting of a force like the Wyrd, whether the Wyrd likes that or not.

                Web of Stories: This one is extremely vague and I'm not sure what you want the power to do. Nothing really leaps out to me in terms of what 'Recognizing the patterns and putting them to practical use' would be implemented as. Changelings don't really have a capacity like this to key off, and the Wyrd isn't really about narrative per se, so the best I'd take a stab at would be an opportunity to stick a Condition on someone with an assigned role or title, which buffs them when they follow that narrative role but meddles when they don't.

                Rebuke the Faustian: I quite like 'break out of any chains or grapple, but it's bargains and pacts instead'. Simply 'detect when someone trying to fool into oath' is very narrow - it's barely ever gonna come up - so I'd extend it to be a general slip-out-of-contract power for even when the agreement was legit and understood. Did the werewolf sign that binding legal agreement to sell their property? Yes, they did, yet somehow now there's no evidence, all the paperwork says something subtly different, and indeed it's hard to be entirely sure you remember them actually signing that document in the first place. Then pop a throw-off effect of supernatural bonding oaths as well, with + Cunning and rote action on Clash of Will checks where they come up relating to such oaths.

                Sacred Hospitality: I can... see an argument for this in Purity, running off a den-mother-esque element of wolfness, but it's a tricky sell nonetheless. It wouldn't make the festivities and celebrations better - that's not quite right here for an Uratha - but I could see it debuffing anyone who wants to kick off and start a fight, enforcing a truce. That said, why is this in the Wyrd Gift? What's the connection to the Wyrd here?

                Thorns and Brambles: Needs more info here as to what it's supposed to do. Click your fingers and make someone vanish? Too much of a magic spell for werewolves, and again I'm unsure as to why it's a Wyrd thing. If it's a trap or binding or hazard, it already falls a bit under Knotted Paths or Maze Ward, and generally you want to avoid overlapping with existing Facets. It doesn't feel hugely Honor-linked and I'm struggling to find a place for it here.

                Quicksilver Dreams: I put something like this together for one of the Facets of the Gift of Thought, afflicting a victim with hallucinations that the Uratha can shape or determine. It feels... reasonably ok here, in that the Wyrd is linked with Changelings and their Clarity issues and magical glamours, so I'm alright with the idea, I think. The name makes me think something more directly dream-related but eh, poetic flourishes are fine.


                If I were to put together something like this of my own, I'd broadly be inclined to make it a Wolf Gift, then make it a series of effects that key off or link into the core Hedge/Changeling schticks. As a Wolf Gift it's cheap and cheerful, so useful for a werewolf character in a Lost context or as extra tools for a werewolf antagonist for changeling PCs. Things like the ability to enter/cross Hedge gateways when pursuing prey, a big-bad-wolf-esque Mask-related effect that means changelings and goblins can't perceive the werewolf's actual identity and merely see them as the Wolf, something that lets them use and force oaths on prey by hunting them, one to allow reflexive Hedge-spinning as long as it relates to closing off escape routes for the prey and running them down, etc.


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                • #9
                  Well damn, you're not going to get a much better answer than that. Thanks Chris!


                  My ideas are bad and I should feel bad.

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