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  • Alternative werewolves myths

    So we know all to well tale of Pangea, killing of Father Wolf and Luna's curse and forgiveness. It's most dominant in Uratha culture in Americas, as it's based on Native Americans imaginary and mix and matching old motives of tales before. But what about other takes on roots of People, from other places? Or maybe not popular myths in mainstream werewolves culture?

    I want only to remind that changing or mix and matching Holy Parents genders is as much as accurate in WtF 2ed. From the blog post Any Answers:

    The story of Wolf and Moon and the Firstborn is still in there, though presented in a more mythological fashion. We outright state that it’s just the most common story, but most werewolves learn some form of a story that includes Wolf, Moon, and the werewolves being responsible for a fall from paradise. Whether Wolf and Moon have a gender (or parental title) and what those genders are (and whethe they’re constant, in the case of the bipolar moon god/dess) is up to the teller. As the Firstborn play a bit more of a role, they tend to have a set gender at least.

    In Uratha Cultures topic I proposed Scandinavian take on Father Wolf and Mother Luna myth. I will elaborate here and would like to hear what do you think of it and pointing if consequences of it aren't contrary to setting as it is. Thanks in advance!


    Mother of Wolves
    In ancient times, that we all almost don't remember, gods and giants, spirit and flash, freely walk upon the young earth. In this still warm from creation land many beings could be gods of powerful spirit, giants of formidable flesh, or often even both. One of them was Mother of Wolves. She was able to give death and life, destruction and birth. She was mother to all wolves, but also guardian of secret ways to commune with spirits, to walk between land of mortals and land of gods. She stood on watch if both gods and humans respect they place in creation. And she deliver massage between them.

    As Mother of Wolves was truly beautiful, she was having cubs with all different suitors, and those children become Firstborns, like Fenris-Ur. But on long nights, she would see Mani, Father Moon, in his silver chariot running in the sky. He was once man, but gods put him in the sky, to light the night with his silver armor. Mother of Wolves desired him so much, by her wish she shed her skin, become human for a night, and walked to his chariot in the sky. After night of passion, she returned and born First Pack, blessed with gift of changing skin and they faces, as both they mother shed her fur and they father is changing each night his face.

    But this miracle night wasn't enough for Mother of Wolves. Even if she knew her love only once defied the rules, she wanted to return to Mani and to be with him forever. Gods made this exception only once, and she made a new race of beings from this union. Afraid what could they love made more to the balance of the world, spirits not allowed her to return to the sky, even for one more night with her lover.

    She raised First Pack, and they Father would watch over them in the nights. She teach them her duties and hunt with them on those that broke the rules of creation. But years passed, and Mother of Wolves was denied the warm embrace of Mani. She let her duties as guardian slip more and more, as she dreamed of unreachable union. Her heart was filled with rage and envy. Later she would be known as Angerboda - One Who Brings Grief – because of horrible things she would let go on the world, and what she herself done to others blinded by emotions. Mother of Wolves was threat to herself, creation and her own children.

    And so, on next the night, Father Moon told the werewolves that her rule must go to past. They knew now Angerboda wouldn't let her duty free until she dies. So First Pack needed do this for the best of whole creation. But some of werewolves were to afraid and run from responsibility. Rest of the pack made this necessary sin. In dying breath Mother of Wolves cursed her own children so the silver, moon metal, would burn them to the flesh. Even if he couldn't totally lift it, Father eased it by adding that only weapon made of it will hurt them, as he was also lord of silver. But Mani only lifted curse on those that listen him and done what had to be done. Gods were furious from what a werewolves done and are to this day. They cursed People so humans would be afraid of them. And so First Pack would be called De Övergivna, Forsaken, from now on. And traitors of First Pack would be known as De Rena, Pure, as they did not want to be burden with sin of killing Mother of Wolves.

    Father Moon understood he must help his children when they Mother was dead and world have turned from them. But he had duties that need to be done, each night, every night, till the end of times. So he send Hjukis - once children he stolen from Earth's years before and now spirits that were his loyal servants. They were tasked to guide the People and teach the ways of the Moon and to help them in their duties to watch over barrier between Flesh and Spirit. Each Hjuki teach about only part of Fathers lore, as only he himself know whole. Father would grant care of each one as spiritual guide to each next werewolf. And so Auspices come to being.

    But still De Övergivna were surrounded by the world that hated them. First Pack needed patrons with the gods. They hunt down and plead Firstborns, first children of Angerboda. Initially those powerful spirits were furious and wouldn't listen, blinded by the rage for killing they Mother. but De Övergivna hunt and run to them again, and again. Finally Firstborns understood they need to forgive they half-brothers and half-sisters, and guide them in the name of memory of they common Mother. And so the Tribes of the Moon come to being.

    But the sins can't be undone. Not all Firstborn forgive the Moon his action. Wolves crave for Mani's blood for what he talked in to First Pack and each day and night Hati Hróðvitnisson, Managarmr, the Moon Hound, is chasing Peoples Father on the sky, letting to shown only one Hujki's face at the time. He become patron of De Rena werewolves and together they hunt for Father Moon and his loyal People. There is gods prophecy that someday all Firstborns will return to Moon for blood of they mother, lead by Fenris. It will be time of Ragnarök and the gods will pay for they inaction when Angerboda were being murdered.

    And so, to this day, De Övergivna hunts the nights to fulfill duties that Angerboda left. They are watched over by Mani and his Hjukis. They are guided by the Firstborns under they Tribes, so they could understand legacy from Mother of Wolves. Even if both Hjukis and Firstborns are not easy allies, they respect and fear one another. And to this day they all hate De Rena. Untill the time of Ragnarök, may he never come.

    So how do you like this alternative to Pangea myth?
    Last edited by wyrdhamster; 11-02-2014, 12:48 PM.


    Conquest of Paradise - Fan Dark Era about Portugal and Spain conquests in XVI century - Mage & Beast ( & Hunter )
    My Hubs - VtR 2E System Hacks, MtAw 2E Legacies and System Hacks & WtF 2E Lodges and System Hacks

  • #2
    So, basically it's the same story, except with a gender swap?

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    • #3
      Look at us. What do you see?

      We consort with hellish creatures of the Shadow. We take the shape of monsters. We tear people to pieces in our rage. We practice witchcraft stolen from monsters.

      There's nothing that is natural or good or pure about us.

      There's a name for beings like us - we're "demons".

      We can be more. Just as the people had their messiah, so did we. Father Wolf gave us a mission, a Hunt - in his last, dying breath, right before we killed him for turning into the monster he would become, the true demon everyone of us could become, he told us to hunt.

      We've kept the faith - HIS faith - ever since.

      So this is what we are - we're demons, every single one of us. There is no redemption, except in hunting other, worse demons.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Christian A View Post
        So, basically it's the same story, except with a gender swap?
        Mother of Wolves story is made mostly as basic myh, yes, to be more easily implanted in the game. But it makes enough sense in terms of Norse mythology - wolves there have from the start hated as symbol of destruction, with Fenris, Hati Hróðvitnisson and others being great threat to the gods in times of Ragnarök. The doom saying prophecy on the end, and hate of Firstborns to the Moon is nice twist, I think.

        Originally posted by Christian A View Post
        Look at us. What do you see?

        We consort with hellish creatures of the Shadow. We take the shape of monsters. We tear people to pieces in our rage. We practice witchcraft stolen from monsters.

        There's nothing that is natural or good or pure about us.

        There's a name for beings like us - we're "demons".

        We can be more. Just as the people had their messiah, so did we. Father Wolf gave us a mission, a Hunt - in his last, dying breath, right before we killed him for turning into the monster he would become, the true demon everyone of us could become, he told us to hunt.

        We've kept the faith - HIS faith - ever since.

        So this is what we are - we're demons, every single one of us. There is no redemption, except in hunting other, worse demons.
        If they are demons, how they worship Father Wolf? They don't need him. Also, from were they come, who made them, hm?
        Last edited by wyrdhamster; 05-15-2014, 02:23 AM.


        Conquest of Paradise - Fan Dark Era about Portugal and Spain conquests in XVI century - Mage & Beast ( & Hunter )
        My Hubs - VtR 2E System Hacks, MtAw 2E Legacies and System Hacks & WtF 2E Lodges and System Hacks

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        • #5
          Myths aren't supposed to explain everything. It's not a myth if it doesn't leave questions unanswered.

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          • #6
            And the Forsaken don't worship Father Wolf. He's dead.

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            • #7
              "No, she is not hungry. She is angry, because God turned away from her. But God turned away from her because she is angry. That's the story."


              Resident Sanguinary Analyst
              Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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              • #8
                Roman Uratha

                So lately I was thinking about other alternative Uratha local myths variant – Roman werewolves. In legend of Rome’s foundation myth Romulus and Remus are first builders of the city. They are sons of mortal women (Rea Silvia/ IIla, Vestal Virigin ) and war god Mars. But after killing they mother, they are taken under auspice ( pun intended ) of Capitoline Wolf and when they are much stronger they return to human civilization. Years later they make a town, kill the murderes of their mother and come in to fratricidal conflict. It’s what humans says.

                For Uratha tale would be much simpler – Capitoline Wolf would be twins biological and spiritual mother ( as Mother Wolf figure ). And they father should be lunar deity. Problem is that in Roman mythology there is Moon goddess Luna, not god. So how to solve this dilemma – Uratha are children of two female spirits? Or maybe they are children of Mars, not Luna?

                Fratricidal conflict would, of course, be about first pack in fighting and dividing on Forsaken and Pure – but what side would choose what brother? Is it Romulus or Remus more Forsaken patron?

                And a little bonus:


                In Assasin’s Creed: Brotherhood is very interesting cult – Sancta Luporum, Followers of Romulus. Even in Renaissance Italy they are active. I could say they would make interesting material for new Pack ( from 2ed) background, don’t you think?
                Last edited by wyrdhamster; 02-25-2015, 02:45 PM.


                Conquest of Paradise - Fan Dark Era about Portugal and Spain conquests in XVI century - Mage & Beast ( & Hunter )
                My Hubs - VtR 2E System Hacks, MtAw 2E Legacies and System Hacks & WtF 2E Lodges and System Hacks

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                  So lately I was thinking about other alternative Uratha local myths variant – Roman werewolves. In legend of Rome’s foundation myth Romulus and Remus are first builders of the city.
                  A human metaphor for how werewolves build stability in their territories by their control of the spirit world?

                  So how to solve this dilemma – Uratha are children of two female spirits? Or maybe they are children of Mars, not Luna?
                  Who cares about the dilemma? Kids are hardly going to be beyond two goddesses, and the canon myth already has the inconsistency of half-flesh kids of two spirits. But Mars is also an agrarian god, which fits the stability of territory motif. Woodpeckers are also sacred to him, so they might feature in the werewolves' iconography.

                  Fratricidal conflict would, of course, be about first pack in fighting and dividing on Forsaken and Pure – but what side would choose what brother? Is it Romulus or Remus more Forsaken patron?
                  Romulus favoured the Palatine Hill, as the site of the city which was (said to be) the location of the actual cave where the wolf raised them; Remus favoured a different hill. Romulus is also of course the one who won. So it would make sense for both groups to claim Romulus while ascribing Remus to the other.

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                  • #10
                    Furthermore, Romulus could be used to depict the Forsaken, and Remus the Pure.

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                    • #11
                      The myth is about the founding of Rome, so it seems way too recent and specific to be an analogue for the Father Wolf myth. That said, as a bit of local mythology it's a pretty great fit.


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Michael View Post
                        The myth is about the founding of Rome, so it seems way too recent and specific to be an analogue for the Father Wolf myth. That said, as a bit of local mythology it's a pretty great fit.
                        Roman myth is mostly based on "Pangean" version of Uratha creation - and with it being story about creation of city-kingdom from 3000 years I could see it as Italian werewolves "pride tale". The obvious problem with is that we have both Wolf Mother and Luna as progenitors of the race.
                        But maybe I have solution to it...

                        What if Uratha are children of the Mars and Wolf Mother, with Luna as their foster mother when Mars turned away from them, seeing they are half flesh? Does this sound better than werewolves being just children of two female goddesses?


                        Conquest of Paradise - Fan Dark Era about Portugal and Spain conquests in XVI century - Mage & Beast ( & Hunter )
                        My Hubs - VtR 2E System Hacks, MtAw 2E Legacies and System Hacks & WtF 2E Lodges and System Hacks

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                        • #13
                          I don't have a problem with werewolves having two mothers, let's be progressive.


                          “I am absolute, I am perfect, I am supreme. I shall be eternal. My tragedy, is that there is no other fate for me. My powerlessness was that I couldn’t subjugate my journey to the gods, while dreaming of rebirth at the end of distant time, like other pharaohs.” Ramesses II, Fate/Prototype: Argent Fragments.

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                          • #14
                            I know that we talk about spirit deities, but can they - both female - "biologically" conceive another race? On the other hand, in classical myth two spirits conceive half-spirits, half-flesh, so maybe it has the same logic here...


                            Conquest of Paradise - Fan Dark Era about Portugal and Spain conquests in XVI century - Mage & Beast ( & Hunter )
                            My Hubs - VtR 2E System Hacks, MtAw 2E Legacies and System Hacks & WtF 2E Lodges and System Hacks

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                            • #15
                              You don't need spirits. In Scandinavian myths apparently humans came from a stone licked by a cow. Basically, you know, fuck logic, roll with whatever you like, because if somebody calls you out for not making sense just point out some weirder of myths.


                              “I am absolute, I am perfect, I am supreme. I shall be eternal. My tragedy, is that there is no other fate for me. My powerlessness was that I couldn’t subjugate my journey to the gods, while dreaming of rebirth at the end of distant time, like other pharaohs.” Ramesses II, Fate/Prototype: Argent Fragments.

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