[2E] Sacred Hunt Questions

[wyrdhamster]

Dwelling deeper into topic of sacredest of rituals for Uratha - Siskur-Dah - some unknowns rise with my players to begin with...

1. How precise Prey must be marked and hunted? If broad category is okay - like Rat Spirits? If then taking Hosts, instead of Spirit, of the same kind as stated prey is okay? Hosts are flesh and spirits hybrids, yes? So if I hunt Rat Spirit, in broad term, would killing Rat Host count as fulfilling Sacred Hunt or not?

[Satchel]

Dwelling deeper into topic of sacredest of rituals for Ueatha - Siskur-Dah - some unknowns rise with my players to begin with...

1. How precise Prey must be marked and hunted? If broad category is okay - like Rat Spirits? If then taking Hosts, instead of Spirit, of the same kind as stated prey is okay? Hosts are flesh and spirits hybrids, yes? So if I hunt Rat Spirit, in broad term, would killing Rat Host count as fulfilling Sacred Hunt or not?

An individual or a group, which does not need precise details or names.

A spirit is not a Host any more than a human is a werewolf. This is a hunt — you are pursuing an indicated prey in a spiritually significant fashion, not wandering around in search of rattish-looking things to take down a rat-spirit.

You as a ritualist have to be able to identify the prey to the participating werewolves. That means you don't need a driver's license or an intimate secret, but you do need to be able to say "this is what we're hunting" and have that answer be reasonably concrete in the narrative. "The rat-king in the abandoned parking garage." "The gang on Third Street." "Whatever it is that tore Billy's arm off last week." Something that is something.

[wyrdhamster]

An individual or a group, which does not need precise details or names.

A spirit is not a Host any more than a human is a werewolf. This is a hunt — you are pursuing an indicated prey in a spiritually significant fashion, not wandering around in search of rattish-looking things to take down a rat-spirit.

Okay, but what are viable Prey targets for the Siskur-Dah then? 'Any Rat Spirit', 'Rat Court members in area' or 'Rat-The-Resilient, Lord of the Constantinopole Sewers'? I look for most broad interpretation here.

Of course, naming Prey is working with the Rite. But would pointing 'Any of Rat-the-Resilient children' would also work? There are only handful - well, maybe dozen - of spirits like those, in the end.

[Lost-His-Mind]

Okay, but what are viable Prey targets for the Siskur-Dah then?

Anything that you can name, be it rat spirits at large, or a single rat-spirit.

[Tessie]

It still needs to be a specified prey or group of prey since the Sacred Hunt rite applies a supernatural effect on all targets. You can't say "rat spirits" (unless you intend to hunt literally all rat spirits) but you can say "the rat spirits plaguing this territory" in order to specify a group.
You also can't say "any of the rat spirits plaguing this territory" because it can't be ambiguous whether any given member of that group is prey or not. You need to specify which one of them if you only want to hunt one individual, or you need to hunt the entire group. Fortunately, you don't necessarily have to fight the entire group that is marked as prey. You could bring down just one of the rat spirits, thereby setting an example for the rest of them, and consider the hunt to be over.
You can play around with the wording of the group in order to make it more or less specific. If there are rat spirits not affiliated with Rat-the-Resilient then you could say "the rat spirits of Rat-the-Resilient's court" in order to exclude them, or you could define the prey as "the rat creatures plaguing this territory" in order to hunt both rat spirits and rat hosts. But don't get overly pedantic about the wording. It's pretty obvious that regular rats aren't intended even if they're technically "rat creatures".

[wyrdhamster]

2. Can Siskur-Dah Rite be performed in Hisil? I assume yes, but it would be dangerous to perform, with spirits and other dangers? ( Probably more general Rites question, but still crucial to the utility of Siskur-Dah )

[nofather]

Yes, it can.

[wyrdhamster]

3. If I declare Prey of Siskur-Dah as broad group - like 'spirit children of Rat-the-Resilient' - I need to hunt ALL of it's members to resolve Siskur-Dah Condition? Or only one member of group? Or if I hunt only one member - the Condition will be broken, as hunt is unsuccessful?

[Bunyip]

3. If I declare Prey of Siskur-Dah as broad group - like 'spirit children of Rat-the-Resilient' - I need to hunt ALL of it's members to resolve Siskur-Dah Condition? Or only one member of group? Or if I hunt only one member - the Condition will be broken, as hunt is unsuccessful?

If you define a broad group, you have to bring down that whole group. You can hunt just one member, but bringing them down won’t give a successful end to the hunt because you have many more.

[Tessie]

3. If I declare Prey of Siskur-Dah as broad group - like 'spirit children of Rat-the-Resilient' - I need to hunt ALL of it's members to resolve Siskur-Dah Condition? Or only one member of group? Or if I hunt only one member - the Condition will be broken, as hunt is unsuccessful?

Getting an answer from a dev is pretty nice, but you could've also checked three posts above yours.

If you define a broad group, you have to bring down that whole group. You can hunt just one member, but bringing them down won’t give a successful end to the hunt because you have many more.

I think it could still be possible to hunt only one member of a group, but defeating that member needs to be a victory over the group as a whole. The most obvious example would be to declare the hunt on a group and take down that group's leader in order to scare the rest into submission or retreat. It'd also depend on the goal of the hunt, imo. Scaring away a group of invaders from your territory is one thing (since then you would've thwarted their attempt at invasion, thereby defeating them), but if the group is in a territory you don't care about then it has only relocated and is merely weakened rather than defeated.

[Bunyip]

Getting an answer from a dev is pretty nice, but you could've also checked three posts above yours.

It's wyrdhamster. This is what he does.

I think it could still be possible to hunt only one member of a group, but defeating that member needs to be a victory over the group as a whole. The most obvious example would be to declare the hunt on a group and take down that group's leader in order to scare the rest into submission or retreat. It'd also depend on the goal of the hunt, imo. Scaring away a group of invaders from your territory is one thing (since then you would've thwarted their attempt at invasion, thereby defeating them), but if the group is in a territory you don't care about then it has only relocated and is merely weakened rather than defeated.

Sure, but if you call a Hunt against an entire group there's a significant difference between taking down one member and wanting that to count as a successful hunt, and taking down a specific member that will bring the rest of the group down. One of these things satisfies the spiritual pact you've made, the other doesn't.

[wyrdhamster]

Sure, but if you call a Hunt against an entire group there's a significant difference between taking down one member and wanting that to count as a successful hunt, and taking down a specific member that will bring the rest of the group down. One of these things satisfies the spiritual pact you've made, the other doesn't.

So hunting one member that leads to downing all other other - like leader - can end successfully Hunt. But taking random, regular member of the group does not fulfill it, you need to Hunt still all other members of group to end Siskur-Dah successfully - correct?

[nofather]

If you're trying to bring down the Illuminati, you gotta bring down the Illuminati. If you know the head of it, or one member, and only want to bring them down, then hunt them, not their entire group.

All that said, there's no mechanical punishment for calling off s hunt, but the whole thing being Sacred, werewolves shouldn't treat it like going shopping, 'oh I brought down one member, that's just as good'

[wyrdhamster]

Wait, leading question coming...

4. If I break or call of Sacred Hunt in motion I got Breaking Point on my Harmony? If yes, on what side - to Spirit or to Flesh?

[Tessie]

4. If I break or call of Sacred Hunt in motion I got Breaking Point on my Harmony?

Hunts can fail, and breaking off a failed hunt should be natural. But if you break it off without a good reason it could count as refusing to participate in a Sacred Hunt.

If yes, on what side - to Spirit or to Flesh?

To which side is it a Breaking Point to not hunt often enough as determined by your Primal Urge, or to refuse to participate in a Sacred Hunt?