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  • A 2E City

    So with all this time, I'm populating LA with monsters. So this thread is about werewolves. How do packs work in a large city? Is there some sort of pack in charge with packs under it, or is it sheer territory cut up between packs. And what about the tribes? Do packs diverge on tribal lines or is there just whatever totem fits best or something else? I'm going to re read the werewolf book again to get a feel for it, but I think that this community can make it easier to figure it all out.



  • #2
    It depends on how big the territory is, how much prey there is, how sustainable the prey is, and how much auspices and tribes interfere ideologically.
    Generally if you WANT a big "werewolf society" it will be a protectorate. Packs are generally multi-tribe but are almost always done on Forsaken/Pure lines with Ghost Wolves working on their own, independently, or on one of two sides.

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    • #3
      I'm trying to confine it to the city, and LA isn't a small city. Plenty of humans and spirits and everything in between. How badly would the auspices and tribes interfere? How large a Pure presence should there be?


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      • #4
        For the Pure, LA seems like it would lean more Ivory Claw than Fire-Touched or Predator Kings (who would be more on the outskirts, or in cult or religiously-heavy areas). Ivory Claws tend to run among the rich and influential and there's a lot of influencers there.

        Unless you want to build a Protectorate (which is more of a unified nation for werewolves), you would just go with packs that control certain areas. Packs tend to be multi-Auspice and multi-Tribe, so if you have one that is singularly of one Auspice or Tribe, they are going to be all about that Auspice or Tribe in some way. A pack of Cahalith may be musicians and storytellers, while a pack of Blood Talons may be the most vicious hitmen in the state.

        You might look at Hunting Ground: The Rockies or the Chicago book for the varied amounts of packs. Both are situated in large areas, the Rockies covering multiple states. But in second edition the core book and the Pack both have example cities and areas you can pull from. The second edition core has Basra, Belfast, Bristol, Detroit, Holmes County Ohio, the MacDonnell Ranges in Australia, Tokyo and Wroclaw in Poland. The Pack has Bangkok, Dubai, and Malta.

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        • #5
          That was going to be my next question of how many packs should I fit in LA and how big would these packs be. LA is going to be a multisplat city, so that might factor into how many werewolves can fit in it.
          Last edited by HunterInTheNight; 05-20-2020, 08:07 PM.


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          • #6
            Originally posted by HunterInTheNight View Post
            That was going to be my next question of how many packs should I fit in LA and how big would these packs be.
            Populations really depend on the game. Forsaken packs, at least the werewolf side of them, tend to have 3-7 werewolves, while Pure packs tend towards higher numbers. That's not including wolf-blooded and humans. I would advise against finding some finite 'There's 12 packs and 80 werewolves in the city' as then you're painting yourself in a corner in case you need more than that. Plus since packs don't have to fit within zoning laws, you can be a part of a pack that straddles two cities just as much as you could have a pack whose territory is one block.

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            • #7
              The thing about LA to consider is its sheer, mind numbing sprawl, there is easily over a hundred and nine miles of tourist and suburban properties that stretch along the coast that technically count as being part of Los Angeles, not mentioning the metropolitan areas and the other suburban areas that reach inward. You have a vast amount of space to play with, more than enough for there to be huge swaths of territory that really goes unnoticed- being “claimed” by one faction or the other... but rarely ever even thought about due to how much work it is to manage a sizable area in the nightmare ecosystem that is Los Angeles’s Shadow.

              In my game LA is largely controlled by the Pure, specifically the Fire-Touched due to the intense disparity regarding the quality of life for people in LA- a perfect place for the Shadow to grow out of proportion, tended to by a doting Izidakh clergy. The Predator Kong’s for the most part are absent, wanting to be as far away from the urbanized hellscape that is the City of Angels, and the Ivory Claws have a presence among the more higher tiers of society, but they find the sifting through the lineages of so many potential bloodlines to be all encompassing- not to mention culling the undesirable elements.. it’s a huge mess.

              There are quite a few isolated packs of Forsaken smattered about, but they have learned its easier to function in these small packs- the Pure can’t easily hunt them down if they are scattered everywhere. They tend to their territories as normal and sometimes antagonize the Anshega, going to ground and vanishing amongst the incalculably huge herd.
              Last edited by Korogra; 05-20-2020, 10:01 PM.

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              • #8
                So, reading up on protectorates, no. Not helpful here. Maybe they will form one, if I decide the prey requires it, but as of a baseline, no. I'm also trying to keep it forsaken dominated. A larger focus on packs dealing with others like themselves, mostly, as well as dealing with the other denizens in the Chronicles of Darkness. Now I'm mostly concerned with trying to figure out how many packs and where the boundaries should be.


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                • #9
                  Just keep everything relative for dramatic purposes and then don't worry about specifics. "Werewolves are the most populous" or "they're the second most populous after vampires" or stuff like that. As for how big territories should be there's no clinical answer, they could be packed in like sardines with just one block, or they could range around entire neighborhoods.

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                  • #10
                    I'm in lockdown. I have over a hundred vampire concepts for LA. I'm doing specifics. I'm populating the city.


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                    • #11
                      Deep reading into the sample locations leaves me to believe that even the densest territories can only handle a large handful of packs at most. With crossing through other's territories frowned upon, confining packs to a block will inevitably kill them. I'm looking for long term stuff.


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by HunterInTheNight View Post
                        Deep reading into the sample locations leaves me to believe that even the densest territories can only handle a large handful of packs at most. With crossing through other's territories frowned upon, confining packs to a block will inevitably kill them. I'm looking for long term stuff.
                        Crossing through territories isn't so much frowned upon unless you're doing something wrong. Though it would be more precise to say that werewolf packs aren't limited to staying inside their territory, and aren't as likely to choose a big and indefensible huge territory just because. A block as a territory is a very defensible area that doesn't require werewolves to attack everyone who enters it while still letting them keep an eye on what's going on.

                        Through the Pack you have packs like Engine 22 and Spirit Machine, a pack-as-fire-department whose more defensible territory is the fire station but are able to range throughout the city, while Spirit Machine's involves their workplace and not the entire area surrounding all their homes to their workplaces.

                        If you have packs that are so defensive that crossing through their territory is seen as some sort of threat, especially given transportation in the modern age, then the packs would have to have a reason for being paranoid, like having been torn up by one of the various imposter-antagonists.

                        Los Angeles is big, though, and having a 'large handful' is probably a good bet, but again I would really suggest you not make your final number a hard one, and leave room for blank spots where it's possible a pack is operating unbeknownst to everyone, or an area where there's werewolves but no one has actively claimed the territory.

                        EDIT: I appreciate what you're going through. Most of us have not just played Werewolf second edition but first, where a lot of this information was sort of set as standard across books like Territories. We don't have as many similar books in second edition, setting up territories and how tribes work are constant mysteries for people newer to the game, though the hunting grounds are meant to do a lot of the work through example. Shunned by the Moon has a section on setting up the hunt near the end, it's a high concentrated dose of first edition's Territories, offering resonances and ideas for different regions and areas a hunt may take place in, as well as what kind of hunts may pop up there and how they can change things.
                        Last edited by nofather; 05-23-2020, 04:30 AM.

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                        • #13
                          From my run on modern Uppsala in Sweden and 9th century Constantinople in Byzantium games in WtF 2E, I may point to you on one, simple solution... ( That I may read it in Damnation Cities or Territories, years ago - whatever )

                          Draw a map! Or take Google Maps of modern city and draw your own lines as layers. Werewolf packs are territorial, they rather stick to their grounds. HOW BIG a Territory is points to status and experience of the pack - older and/or more powerful takes more swaths of terrain to cover, weaker and/or younger take smaller areas.

                          Here is my modern Uppsala Hunting Grounds packs map!


                          My stuff for Realms of Pugmire, Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
                          LGBT+ through Ages
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                          • #14
                            Already ahead of you. I've got the map, and I think I've gotten enough info to get the number of packs and will draw up territory lines after the alpha's are created.


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