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You Are What You Hunt- Random Firstborn Thoughts

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  • You Are What You Hunt- Random Firstborn Thoughts

    That is the most basic law of Hisil.

    Like draws like. Resonance creates a feedback between Flesh and Shadow. Spirits propagate the concepts which they embody, in order to later feed upon them. Peace feeds upon peace, death upon death, sorrow upon sorrow and blood upon blood. Whole hierarchies of spirit nobles are joined by that concept, drawn to each other through the similarity of their nature. In order to gain Essence, you must feed upon things which fit your symbolism- either things which makes sense for you to devour, considering what you embody, or things which share their nature with you. Owl spirits hunt for other owl spirits, but also for mouse and rat spirits, as they are a way for it to express and solidify its nature as an Owl. That's why the Uratha feed upon humans and wolves to gain Essence, and become more "spiritual" as a result. That's why the Hosts devour one another, growing in power. Like draws like, and breaking that most basic of laws risks in the "dilution of concepts"- or, as many would know it, becoming a magath.

    You are what you hunt- that's the law of the Shadow.

    And that's also true for the Firstborn.

    I mean, it has been hinted here and there through the books. Death Wolf died in her search for answers, leaving her mad ghost behind and turning into something much more similar to her prey. Winter Wolf sometimes rides the Flesh of Wolf Blooded like the Claimed he despise so much. Red Wolf is the closest Firstborn to humanity, being obsessed with how they change and adapt. With the possible exception of Dire Wolf, Destroyer Wolf is the closest to embody the idea of a "werewolf" as a raging beast of ruin. While Black Wolf is not shattered like the Hosts she hunts, she is rumored to pull parts of the Flesh into the Shadow, and her connection to the Host is, after all, how they both are able to manipulate their territory. So in short, yeah, there is a basic application of the Law to the Firstborn- and it makes sense. You are what you hunt, because you must think like your prey in order to catch it.

    But that's only for Five of the Firstborn- what about the rest?

    Well, that's where things start to get a little bit.. tricky. The Pure totems do not have their prey as defined as the Forsaken's- and it does have its benefits. Those who dishonor the Shadow, their lineage, or the hunt itself are all much more open for interpretation than what their kin hunts for, and it has a certain.. implications. I mean, if you are what you hunt, then that should also apply to the Pure Firstborn, right? Does it mean that Rabid Wolf dishonors the Shadow? Or Silver Wolf his lineage? Or Dire Wolf the hunt? Yeah, I am not going to make any of such claims, especially not towards Dire Wolf. I prefer not to be eaten be a monster god, thank you very much.

    However, the fact is that the sacred prey of those Firstborn is, again, very open for interpretations- which means, by extension, that their own nature is also much less defined. The broader your class of prey, the more diluted is your nature and the concepts you embody. Again, nothing stops spirits from simply devouring any scrap of Essence they can find- but it has implications. Serious implications. The Pure Firstborn, and the Pure themselves, are much less defined in their hunt, their nature is more diluted- and you know what that implies, right? Magaths.

    Am I still alive? Great. Let's keep on going.

    I am not going to claim that any of the Firstborn is a magath (and it is not just to keep Dire Wolf from eating me, even if it is a legitimate reason). However, what we can agree that this is not the natural state for the Old Gods of the Shadow. Hisil likes well defined things- heck, nature loves well defined things. Sure, entropy is growing and growing blah blah blah Second Law, but the truth is that most things don't mix well together, and entropy be damned. Heck, I did my whole Master around trying to see what mixes well together and what doesn't for a certain chemical system, and believe me that sometimes we can't really explain why beside the fact that "like draws like". Enthalpy is a bastard, but thanks to it we are actually alive, instead of being some cancerous mess. So yeah, while having a lot of concepts mixed together has its benefits, and it is a much more stable system in principle, for living things having high entropy is an outright disease, something which you don't want to happen. Having a much less defined Sacred Hunt is not a gift- it is an infection. The Pure Firstborn have their nature damaged, perhaps by mistake, perhaps by purpose. They have diluted themselves, erasing their original nature- not enough to become magaths, but dangerously close to it. In short- the Pure Firstborn are sick.

    And of course, that leads you towards Rabid Wolf.

    Now, Rabid Wolf is an easy one- after all, the legends claim that she once was Creator Wolf, who went mad after Father Wolf's fall. However, while it may be easy to claim Rabid Wolf as an example for such a dilution, and perhaps with her being on the verge of becoming a magath (even more than her kin- after all, she did changed her nature), there are two issues with that claim. The first is that it downplays the sickness of Dire Wolf and Silver Wolf, as if putting them as "less corrupted" than Rabid Wolf. While it may be true, I am not a fan of such double standards- especially as Silver Wolf also had his nature somewhat changed (being covered with molten silver which forever agonize him), and that makes Dire Wolf the "least corrupted one", as compared to his kin he haven't changed that much since the time of Pangaea. Second is Chris Allens new (totally homebrew) writeup for Creator Wolf's Tribe, one which describes what Rabid Wolf may have been before falling into a disease. A being of change, inspiration and craft. A machine which transforms the world. An entity which marked the agents of the status que as her favored prey. The hunter of the God Machine and all of His celestial choirs.

    And we all know what happens when the God Machine becomes sick, right?

    So yeah, the chances are that if Rabid Wolf was once Creator Wolf, the reason for her "rabies" is less her becoming a magath and more of her becoming tainted by the Contagion. You are what you hunt, after all, and I guess that the fall of Pangaea could make one, in an attempt to reinforce their nature, to choose to eat bad meat over non kosher meat, choosing ideals over necessities and truth over reality. Yep, that didn't ended well for her, but never mind that. And again, Rabid Wolf wasn't the only one to have her nature changed- Silver Wolf did, as mentioned above (I imagine him being originally Opalescent, the Firstborn who built temples for Luna, as he was mentioned to be very loyal to her before her "betrayal'- and beside it would mean that Apollo is probably Incandescent, his twin aspected to the Sun), but he wasn't the only one. Death Wolf was once Seeking Wolf, and no one suspects her of being "diluted"- her prey is well defined, after all.

    So yeah, the "mere change of nature" is not enough to separate the Pure Firstborn from the Forsaken ones. After all, it is probably not the change of nature such as losing it. You don't just become something else- you lose who you are. It is a dilution, not a transformation. Instead of a violent chemical reaction where new compounds rise from the wreckage of entropy, we are talking about the basic solution reaction, where chemicals still maintain their identity, but simply add other chemicals to their overall system. Difficult at first, but easier the more you mix together. So yeah, the simple act of having one's nature change is not to become a magath- but the Pure totems did do something to make themselves less defined..

    Just like how the Pure do.

    I mean, after Sundered World we discovered a terrifying truth- that the Pure are wrong. Silver has always hurt the Uratha, and they were always blessed with an Auspice from Mother Luna. The act of ripping one's Auspice from their own Essence is a blasphemy, as it disrupts their nature. It would be like a Owl spirit would rip apart half of her owl nature, leaving behind only a mere shadow of what it once was- but it is a possibility. Sure, the quickest way to dilute your concepts is to devour Essence which goes against your nature, but this process is hard and painful. But there is yet another possibility- cutting parts of yourself which defines you. Cut away your friends, your family, your name and your face- and who you are? Without having anything to define you, wouldn't you mix so much better in anything else? By cutting yourself apart, can't your nothing become everything? Wouldn't it be the very opposite of becoming a magath, in a way?

    Just who exactly invented the "purification rite"? The Pure, out of spite for their Mother as they deny their destined place as the children of Urfarah? Or their Firstborn, who teared their own commitments to the Father who failed them, and brought ruin to paradise by his own weakness?

    Who knows? The Firstborn would probably never answer that question. However, it does makes you wonder what did exactly was the nature of those Firstborn before they cut it apart and threw it away? Or what happened to their castaway nature? After all, we are talking about titanic spirits of great power, whose souls have souls of their own. Would those broken pieces of a Firstborn nature still be around, incarnating themselves in hidden places? What did those Firstborn hunted before they denied who and what they are? I mean, sure, we know what Creator Wolf who became Rabid Wolf hunted, but that's just one out of three, and may actually not even be valid for Rabid Wolf herself. What was the prey of Rabid Wolf? Silver Wolf? Dire Wolf? Opalescent? Heck, who was Seeking Wolf before she died, becoming a ghost who is still angry on Death Wolf for casting her away, and taking everything from her?

    So many question that we would probably never know the answer to, unless we go and search for whatever disfigured natures that the Firstborn have cut from themselves in their quest for vengeance.

    And while I am no fortuneteller, I guess we will not like what we would find.

    (so, in short, it is all a very fancy way to ask if the Pure Firstborn has a prey like the Forsaken ones, what would it be? :P)
    Last edited by LostLight; 05-24-2020, 01:12 PM.


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  • #2
    This reminds me of a couple of short essay-pieces I wrote on Rabid and Dire Wolf over on my patreon a coupla years ago. I'll see if I can dig them out.


    - Chris Allen, Freelance Writer & Developer

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    • #3
      So, from my ruminations over on Patreon; note that this was back in 2018, so I reserve the right to changes of mind, etc etc, and so forth.


      The Eldest of the Brood
      I was asked for my thoughts about Dire Wolf and its relationships with its siblings. Note that this is very much not the be-all and end-all of how one might interpret and use Dire Wolf, and there are areas of Dire Wolf's nature that I might have more to say on but cannot for now; feel free to disregard, spindle, fold, mutilate, or otherwise change the below.


      Eldest of the Firstborn, Dire Wolf has seen the world turn for longer than any of its siblings. Oh, the greater age of the ancient hunter has long been the subject of the tales of the Pure and Forsaken but few, on either side of the divide, really understand what this means. Although the Uratha often categorise the Firstborn as squabbling siblings, giving these eldritch gods a decidedly familiarising aspect, they are not yapping pups. They are monsters, and Dire Wolf the most monstrous of them all.

      Dire Wolf was born to a primal world untouched by the influences that the other Firstborn would emerge to see and become obsessed by. It is in many ways a simpler, more elemental creature than the rest—forged in a crucible that was not yet so marred by the dross that the simple passage of time would build up and scar the world with. Its very sentience and mind—inasmuch as a Firstborn has such a thing, rather than being simply a philosophical imperative given divine power—was founded on an existence where things were less complicated, where the cracks had yet to fracture their way through paradise. It is, by all accounts, the most powerful of the brood, even if that power is wrought in direct and brutal force rather than the complexities and subtleties of its younger brethren.

      And yet Dire Wolf’s ban, the symbolic boundary of its own will, is tied to humanity. Honor nothing of human craft, indeed. Why would the most ancient, most primal, most true of the Firstborn, closest echo of the Great Predator’s brilliant ferocity, be so tied to the very species that it so utterly hates?

      Humanity is just as old. A Firstborn cannot simply be, it must be defined against, and for Dire Wolf, that definition was against nascent humanity. Even then, proud Dire Wolf was set against the rising power of mankind—and not simply in brutal and savage contest. Rather, clear-eyed and pure-souled Dire Wolf saw in humanity the future—a future it needed to oppose and contest, and one that it was entirely equipped to do so against. Elemental, primal Dire Wolf was the very opposition humanity needed to thrive, its opposite number that might seal both into a cycle of conflict that would lift up and strengthen both.

      To look upon Dire Wolf now is to see a god who was defeated in that struggle. Not by humanity, no, but by itself. What happened to so twist the wolf to hatred? What happened to make it lose its soul, to turn from the Great Enemy into the hateful shadow that wants only to tear down with no greater thought than spite? Was it Pangaea’s fall, or something else? Bitter, furious Dire Wolf offers no answers to this question. It only hungers.

      That Dire Wolf looks down upon its siblings is well-known, an arrogance not like that of Silver Wolf’s hubristic pride but, rather, a simple belief in its own superiority born from a tunnel-vision focus on one particular tenet about how the world should be—kill-or-be-killed, predator-or-prey. This shallow view does not, however, truly map out the depths of Dire Wolf’s leanings. The great killer feels bitterness towards its fellow Pure totems because they have yet to give up; they still cling to something within themselves that has long since withered and died within Dire Wolf’s heart. Their arrogance and madness gives them hope, where Dire Wolf knows only hunger—a growing, gnawing, ravenous appetite that never lets up, never ceases. The Firstborn’s obsession with humanity renders the blame for its hunger upon the spread of that world-spanning species, but the truth is irrelevant to Dire Wolf here—fallen enemy of humanity, it places the guilt upon humanity for its every failing regardless of the actual cause. The gnawing hunger in Dire Wolf is a spiritual malaise of its own, a representation of its inheritance and the void that has grown in its own heart.

      So too does Dire Wolf feel bitter enmity towards the Firstborn of the Forsaken, for they have taken facets of the role that should have been its own—testing and troubling humanity in a more symbiotic relationship than the ravening, monstrous hatred that now grips Dire Wolf. It reserves its greatest ire for Red Wolf and her children, because she is perhaps the apex representation of what it has lost—it could have risen with humanity, the god of their own struggle with the world, ever present and ever testing, always opposing. Instead it is a primeval monster relegated to the back seat, irrelevant except where its savage servants directly kill and slay. This sense of redundancy simmers and seethes in the back of its awareness, a subconscious urge—and in a god’s mind, even the subconscious is a colossally powerful being. It lashes out at the attempts by the Forsaken Firstborn to build their schemes and their agendas, for anything but base destruction and primal chaos is a reminder of its own failings, proof that it could have been so much more—but has been mired instead by its own hatred


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      • #4
        And a slightly later piece on Rabid Wolf.


        Action Without Limits
        Someone was interested in seeing a bit of commentary about Rabid Wolf in the same vein as the piece I did on Dire Wolf a while back. Rabid Wolf is an interesting character due to the various elements all folded into one mix; I figured I'd focus this slightly rambling piece on one general thread of the overall picture.


        Rabid Wolf, youngest of the brood, so often bears the brunt of derision, mockery, and the demeaning epithets of those who think themselves lofty enough to judge a god despite their own mortality. Rabid Wolf, they say, is mad—but what does it truly mean, to be a mad god?

        Rabid Wolf is not mad, not in a way that meaningfully connects with the notion as understood by those who would chain her with it. So often, the intent behind labelling her such is to indicate she is broken, wretched, or somehow lesser—that she is unreliable, an idiot god unworthy of reverence. The implication, then, is that Rabid Wolf is the subject of madness, a victim as much as any hapless human might be.

        Rabid Wolf is no victim.

        The youngest is a god of hope. She is the paragon of potential fulfilled, of those who are not born to perfection but who strive to achieve it through their existence. Rabid Wolf represents these things utterly, without restraint, and it is in this that she seems to reflect madness. She is the fevered determination to achieve regardless of the cost; she is the willingness to go beyond any limitation in search of fulfilment, even the breaking of the seeker’s own body; she is the rejection of the shackling chains of society’s mores and boundaries that stand between the individual and the realization of their own perfection.

        Rabid Wolf might seem mad because she encourages the individual to become perfect, regardless of transgressions or cost, but how can a god be mad? Each of the Firstborn is utterly obsessed with their focusing drive; each is wounded by monstrous flaws that dwarf those of mortals; each is fundamentally inhuman and alien. None is more mad than the others. Rabid Wolf, though, is perhaps the most honest in her inhumanity. She pretends to be nothing else, seeks not to ameliorate the excesses that her tenets drive the Firstborn and her petitioners towards. She is the least elemental of her kin, coming to existence in a world already rendered complex and nuanced by comparison to that of the elders of the brood, but she offers a stark path through that complexity—a route to hope, to the ideal of a better self, towards perfection. A route that pays no heed to the cost, to the limits that must be exceeded, to the boundaries that must be transgressed.

        As Father Wolf’s last great child, she seems strikingly set in opposition to the Great Predator’s fundamental drive—to hold the borders fast, to prevent transgression against its great laws. Perhaps a lesson nestles in that contradiction. Wolf, growing older, growing weaker, perhaps began to see that its own static nature was a barrier for the wider world, and so Rabid Wolf’s birth is, in turn, the manifestation of that growing self-reflection, a representation of Wolf’s own advancement towards perfection and self-refinement.

        And in that may lie the answer to why Rabid Wolf hewed to the Pure, why she saw in her progenitor’s death a provocation to fury rather than the proof of the ideals she embodies. The death of Wolf strangled the perfection of the greatest of gods, halted its own progress towards finally overcoming its limitations. Worse, the Forsaken themselves cleave to the static ideals that Wolf left behind, rather than an understanding of the philosophical journey on which the god walked.

        That Rabid Wolf’s ban, the symbolic boundary of her will and existence, is to brook no lies is usually derided as a sign of self-deception, of the fractured nature of a broken mind. Yet, again, Rabid Wolf is a god; she is not the simplicity of a mortal mind that can so easily be cracked. Her ban has symbolic purpose and meaning; it is a limitation, but also an anchor, for her and for those who follow the Firstborn. Truth matters, in Rabid Wolf’s paradigm; the truth of the individual, not held back by whatever boundaries are placed on their potential, but full and untarnished in its magnificence. It’s truth to which she ever strives – the truth of a world where the veils and shrouds and chains that everyone tries to fetter it with to their own ends are all torn away, and every being exults in the indulgence of its truest drives. But it’s also a reminder, a weight that keeps the individual grounded. It’s too easy for a seeker to mire themselves in self-deception; it’s too easy to build metaphorical chains and shackles through lying, or through information twisted and coloured by interpretation. Lies stifle progress towards fulfilling potential, and often form the links of the chains from which boundaries are born. Lies unmoor the mind entirely, embracing something that, perhaps, might be considered true madness—acting not only without limitation in the progress towards perfection, but without any drive or aim at all, simply random and undirected. The world naturally abhors such, as the formless idigam demonstrate. So Rabid Wolf cannot brook lies, because they lead towards the very broken nature that her detractors so quickly ascribe to her. She cannot brook lies because her desire is towards unfiltered truth, unlimited potential. Her ban is not self-deception, but self-realization; it is the channel through which she can progress towards her goal. But it is also a limitation. By her nature, Rabid Wolf must seek to overcome it, to go beyond it, to fulfil her potential utterly without regard for such bondage. Perhaps, one day, she will.

        As to the physical corruption of disease mirrored in the feverish symbolism of Rabid Wolf’s divinity, and indeed her very name; and as to why she cavorts with the lords of the Shadow and seeks to usher its power into the Flesh; these are linked to this core facet of her nature. Yet they are complex matters in their own right, and perhaps the subjects for another time. Rabid Wolf is the bright light of truth burning a path through a realm of subtleties and confusions, yet so too is she a deeply complex being herself; last of the Firstborn, youngest of the brood, and mirror to a world ever more elaborate and convoluted with the passing of the ages.


        - Chris Allen, Freelance Writer & Developer

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        • #5
          First- that was just awesome to read!

          Second, I am sincerely troubled with how well that fits the presented theory- Dire Wolf is indeed sick and lacking, and have had his sacred prey torn apart from him. Perhaps Red Wolf was birthed to replace him after he failed. Perhaps she found that missing part of him and eaten it, absorbing it into herself. Heck, maybe she is it- a former aspect of Dire Wolf who took life of its own, becoming a rival to the fallen god of the hunt. Rabid Wolf is also really great, and clarifies a lot about the connection between her and Creator Wolf, as was presented in the Drinkers of the Well writeup. I start to wonder if Lycaon Ur could be the part that she lost when she became Pure (you know, as much as the theory presented is valid, and because of the apparent connection between the Firstborn, Lycaon and the God Machine). She sacrificed her own sacred prey to transgress against her own laws and limitations, and her enemy took over that part for His own devices. I kinda wonder if breaking Lycaon from the God Machine's grasp could be a good origin point for the Drinkers of the Well in a Chronicle.

          Thanks for sharing this!


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          • #6
            I see them as 'born' Pangaean so they didn't inherently reflect the hunting of a certain prey. They epitomized a certain kind of hunter or hunt. Death Wolf as a shadowy scavenger, Winter Wolf as an inexorable force, Dire Wolf as a primordial horror, a 'thing from before times.' From there and with their adaptation to spirits and, later, totems of tribes, the sacred prey isn't really something they object to. We as players find it easier to say 'they hate x' because it's easier to justify hunting x if it's a baddie, but I don't run the Firstborn as really caring about that, beyond Soulless Wolf.

            Even in the Forsaken sacred prey, there's a lot of overlap. Werewolves can be dismissed as Ridden or Claimed, and what is either without a human or a spirit. A shapechanger can be any of the lot. Since pinning down 'They hunt this' could lead to 'but that's just as ambiguous as before.' I'll offer two for each.

            Dire Wolf hunts primordial horrors. Ancient monsters long forgotten or rejected by man that represent a time lost. Man-eating giants of myth, sea serpents and the dragons at the far end of the map. Alternatively, Dire Wolf hunts Horrors, or if you need a gameline, Beasts.
            Silver Wolf hunts the nobility. Any who would put themselves above the rest. This accounts for human kings and spirit gods, rulers of alien terrains, fellow Pangaeans and the dead revered and honored by the living. Alternatively, Silver Wolf hunts Vampires.
            Rabid Wolf hunts those that impose their will on the Shadow. Sorcerers, witches, werewolf shamans and Claimed that decide the flesh is not enough, idigam and things that take spirits and break them. Alternatively, Rabid Wolf hunts Mages.

            Love the write-ups. I had a weird idea for a lodge based around Dire Wolf confronting some mirror of himself and breaking it because there couldn't be any other like him and it shattering a fundamental aspect of their self. Also it fits in nicely with their Secondborn from Shunned. The essays are nice since they don't really nail things down in a very static fashion, keeping it ambiguous.
            Last edited by nofather; 05-24-2020, 04:52 PM.

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            • #7
              what about Silver Wolf. You know, that hubristic asshole who tried to overthrow Father Wolf and got his butt kicked. The Pure Alpha, if only because Rabid Wolf is mad (or under the theory proposed here not even pretending to be sane) and Dire Wolf doesn't care. How does the law of the shadow apply to a spirit god who is essentially a Neo-Nazi (even if he was born long before Nazism)?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by evtrax View Post
                what about Silver Wolf. You know, that hubristic asshole who tried to overthrow Father Wolf and got his butt kicked. The Pure Alpha, if only because Rabid Wolf is mad (or under the theory proposed here not even pretending to be sane) and Dire Wolf doesn't care. How does the law of the shadow apply to a spirit god who is essentially a Neo-Nazi (even if he was born long before Nazism)?
                Based on the thread, that seems a question for you to answer. What do you think he should hunt?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by nofather View Post

                  Based on the thread, that seems a question for you to answer. What do you think he should hunt?
                  umm. no clue. I cannot weave a story like the earlier posts on the spot. give me something inspiring and I can make an epic. but honesly I don't know how to make a short essay that's good for this thing. I was asking either lostlight or Acrozatirim.

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                  • #10
                    Well, on the subject of this theory (if you were to use it), you can't judge Silver Wolf by what he is- but by what he was. Under this theory, Silver Wolf once had some driving force, some object which he hunted, and which he tore from its own Essence to become "Pure". Now, the change does not need to be dramatic- if we were to follow Acrozatirim's musing, Dire Wolf once was the foe of humanity, trating them as his sacred prey- but he lost it, and became hunger with no purpose. Of course, if Silver Wolf was Opalescent, then the change may have been more dramatic- but still, I am going to assume that Silver Wolf "purified" himself only after his transformation, making the question irreverent.

                    So- back to the topic. Silver Wolf sees himself as a noble entity, yet he is also defined by agony. He sees himself as a martyr for his own purity, suffering constantly as a proof of his own rightfulness. Let's go back a second for Opalescent- here we are talking about a Firstborn who was not just a kin to the Moon, but also her Hierophant. He was Luna's favorite, destined for greatness- only to be bound with silver when he lashed against her. Still, you are what you hunt- so was Opalescent the hunter of the Lunes? That feels too much like a stretch, but may at least help to point us to the right direction. Pain, suffering, broken by light- Void Spirits, perhaps? Sure, it is indeed a rare prey, but it is still a worthy prey. However, I can't remember if keeping Earth safe from void spirits was Helios's job or Luna's- if it was the Moon, it would make sense for Silver Wolf. If it was the Sun's it was probably the role that Apollo discarded. On the other hand, Sky Hunter could very well have been the one to hunt the Spirits of the Void, so it may not be the case at all.

                    The idigam could be another option, due to their similarities to the Luna- but that was Father Wolf's job, to banish the unshaped and throw them to Luna's cold embrace. Having a tribe, or a Firstborn, to take over that responsibility, feels a bit unbalanced. It downgrades the place of the idigam, or gives Silver Wolf a justification for his claims about nobility, and I don't like either of those options.

                    Lineage. Lineage and suffering. Lineage and pain. Lineage and blood.

                    I feel like I am on the right track, but I can't reach the end of it. Agony, suffering, purity, lineage, blood- it should be somewhere on those lines. Something is missing on how to bind all of those into a well defined target, a one word way to describe who Silver Wolf was born to hunt. It should also somewhat reflect the role of Apollo/ Incandescent. A twin role for twin gods, each covering what the other is lacking, a duality of light which was disrupted by the death of Father Wolf. Vampirism could indeed have been a possibility, as nofather suggested, but Ravening Wolf already hunts for them as part of her preview of eating the dead, and the Vampires of Requiem are not that "noble" IMO.

                    So yeah, I don't have answer right now. I feel like I get close to it, but I am not sure. Silver Wolf currently is the "purity of bloodline", and that your blood and heritage decide who you are. If we think of it as the Firstborn's fallen state, then he must have been something greater before, a god of purity still, but of a different kind. A god who tore his own heart out because of feeling pain, betrayal and disgrace. Silver Wolf once had pride, one which was taken from him as he became Pure, leaving him obsessed about blood instead of deeds. I feel that whatever prey he may have had, it should either be of some sort of a celestial origin or connected to the concept of martyrs, some kind of sacrificial entity or anything of that like, but I am still not sure about the details.

                    Again, I have no answer right now- only some rambling thoughts which may take a more cohesive form the more I'll dwell on it.


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by LostLight View Post
                      On the other hand, Sky Hunter could very well have been the one to hunt the Spirits of the Void, so it may not be the case at all.
                      In Lore of the Forsaken we get a nice write-up, one of his eccentricities is that he apparently has a lot of owl servitors, with silver eyes. I like the idea that he was Opalescent, but he could have gobbled up Sky Hunter and taken over their stuff.

                      This is a very human take, but it's possible they were a scion of Father Wolf and Moon, as Opalescent, but didn't get the spirit sway as Prince of the Shadow, or the werewolf sway since he was just another one of the Firstborn. It could explain another one of his eccentricities, the censoring of werewolf lore. While he's said to really enjoy stories of the 'good old days' in Pangaea, he apparently will actually act when it comes to keeping werewolves from knowing their own history. Though this is also heavily first edition, Lore of the Forsaken being one of the first books.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by LostLight View Post
                        Well, on the subject of this theory (if you were to use it), you can't judge Silver Wolf by what he is- but by what he was. Under this theory, Silver Wolf once had some driving force, some object which he hunted, and which he tore from its own Essence to become "Pure". Now, the change does not need to be dramatic- if we were to follow Acrozatirim's musing, Dire Wolf once was the foe of humanity, trating them as his sacred prey- but he lost it, and became hunger with no purpose. Of course, if Silver Wolf was Opalescent, then the change may have been more dramatic- but still, I am going to assume that Silver Wolf "purified" himself only after his transformation, making the question irreverent.

                        So- back to the topic. Silver Wolf sees himself as a noble entity, yet he is also defined by agony. He sees himself as a martyr for his own purity, suffering constantly as a proof of his own rightfulness. Let's go back a second for Opalescent- here we are talking about a Firstborn who was not just a kin to the Moon, but also her Hierophant. He was Luna's favorite, destined for greatness- only to be bound with silver when he lashed against her. Still, you are what you hunt- so was Opalescent the hunter of the Lunes? That feels too much like a stretch, but may at least help to point us to the right direction. Pain, suffering, broken by light- Void Spirits, perhaps? Sure, it is indeed a rare prey, but it is still a worthy prey. However, I can't remember if keeping Earth safe from void spirits was Helios's job or Luna's- if it was the Moon, it would make sense for Silver Wolf. If it was the Sun's it was probably the role that Apollo discarded. On the other hand, Sky Hunter could very well have been the one to hunt the Spirits of the Void, so it may not be the case at all.

                        The idigam could be another option, due to their similarities to the Luna- but that was Father Wolf's job, to banish the unshaped and throw them to Luna's cold embrace. Having a tribe, or a Firstborn, to take over that responsibility, feels a bit unbalanced. It downgrades the place of the idigam, or gives Silver Wolf a justification for his claims about nobility, and I don't like either of those options.

                        Lineage. Lineage and suffering. Lineage and pain. Lineage and blood.

                        I feel like I am on the right track, but I can't reach the end of it. Agony, suffering, purity, lineage, blood- it should be somewhere on those lines. Something is missing on how to bind all of those into a well defined target, a one word way to describe who Silver Wolf was born to hunt. It should also somewhat reflect the role of Apollo/ Incandescent. A twin role for twin gods, each covering what the other is lacking, a duality of light which was disrupted by the death of Father Wolf. Vampirism could indeed have been a possibility, as nofather suggested, but Ravening Wolf already hunts for them as part of her preview of eating the dead, and the Vampires of Requiem are not that "noble" IMO.

                        So yeah, I don't have answer right now. I feel like I get close to it, but I am not sure. Silver Wolf currently is the "purity of bloodline", and that your blood and heritage decide who you are. If we think of it as the Firstborn's fallen state, then he must have been something greater before, a god of purity still, but of a different kind. A god who tore his own heart out because of feeling pain, betrayal and disgrace. Silver Wolf once had pride, one which was taken from him as he became Pure, leaving him obsessed about blood instead of deeds. I feel that whatever prey he may have had, it should either be of some sort of a celestial origin or connected to the concept of martyrs, some kind of sacrificial entity or anything of that like, but I am still not sure about the details.

                        Again, I have no answer right now- only some rambling thoughts which may take a more cohesive form the more I'll dwell on it.
                        I am willing to wait for your answer. all your ideas are just great.

                        and also, based on the musings of Acrozatirim, what did Rabid Wolf lose exatly? Dire wolf lost his purpose, but what did rabid wolf lose. its not his sanity, cayse it was spelled out that he never had that in the first place, so what?

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                        • #13
                          Well, owl servitors is indeed a very good pointer towards vampires. I don't think I have Lore of the Forsaken- I wasn't really into Werewolf in 1e (2e really did an amazing job in drawing me to the gameline). As I have some plans for Sky Hunter, I am a bit wary about having them eaten by Silver Wolf, however..

                          Goddamn it.

                          Sorry, Wolfdamn it.

                          Through half of the last post I tried to get what exactly I am missing about pain and fallen purity, while in the same breath I did my best not to use the words "luciferian" to describe him (less about the actual term, and more how Lucifer is presented in Aoi no Exorcist). No wonder I reached a dead end.

                          Demons. Silver Wolf hunted demons.

                          I am not necessarily saying "unchained demons", or even "infernal demons" (the later may be more of who Soulless Wolf may have been, if her was a Firstborn at all). Demons cover many strange things in the CofD universe. Heck, the strix have been mentioned to be demonic more than once, and I remember that Dave said that if you want Supernatural kind of demons, you should use the Owls. Having Silver Wolf/ Opalescent hunting shadow demons who were denied by humanity as the brightness of the night and considering that the strix are things of pain and rejection makes a LOT of sense for Silver Wolf, IMO, but I guess that any kind of demons could work for him- even the Unchained ones, even if they are very tricky to catch, and their connection to the moon is not that clear (well, as long as you ignore the Angel of Death being stuck on the Dark Side, but never mind that).

                          So yeah, I would go with demons- either the Unchained, or the strix.


                          EDIT- another thing to support the strix is their corruption of flesh, while Silver Wolf is found in constant agony. You are what you hunt, and him being accompanied by owls may very well be his own rejection of his original role as the hunter of shadows.
                          Last edited by LostLight; 05-24-2020, 06:47 PM.


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