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  • Ghosts as duguthim

    I was planning on using an idigam out of Night Horrors Wolfsbane that basically creates duguthim using ghosts instead of spirits, however I'm not certain how to stat that. I've tried to consolidate duguthim creation with some ideas of using things out of Geist, as that's the closest I've found to ghost creation, but it's just not working in my head. And ideas? Or is there another book I should be looking at?

  • #2
    Spirit-Claimed and Ghost-Claimed are mechanically identical (with the exception of Ghost-Claimed not being able to cross the Gauntlet at Loci) so I don't know what you need help with. Just remember that ghosts generally have different motivations than spirits and wouldn't act quite the same.


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    • #3
      Ya, the only real difference between a ghost that claimed someone and a spirit is how you can interact with them and what realms they are tied to.

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      • #4
        Mostly I can't seem to find how to stat a ghost itself, so I don't know how to stat it the way I would a duguthim. Can I just use spirit creation for ghosts or something? Geist basically has you create a human and then the geist itself is this ethereal concept.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by CritCat View Post
          Mostly I can't seem to find how to stat a ghost itself, so I don't know how to stat it the way I would a duguthim. Can I just use spirit creation for ghosts or something? Geist basically has you create a human and then the geist itself is this ethereal concept.

          Check the base CofD book, or look in the Ephemeral Rules section of Geist.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Voytek View Post


            Check the base CofD book, or look in the Ephemeral Rules section of Geist.
            Is there a Geist 2e that I don't know about? I'd heard one was coming out, but I didn't know it was out yet. I don't know which version is on Drive Thru RPG, either.
            I'll check CoD, though, and see if I just missed it.

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            • #7
              I think I've found it in CofD? Looks very similar to stuff in Predators, so doesn't seem too bad.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by CritCat View Post
                Is there a Geist 2e that I don't know about? I'd heard one was coming out, but I didn't know it was out yet.
                Been out since earlier this year.


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by CritCat View Post
                  Mostly I can't seem to find how to stat a ghost itself, so I don't know how to stat it the way I would a duguthim. Can I just use spirit creation for ghosts or something? Geist basically has you create a human and then the geist itself is this ethereal concept.
                  Don't bother with either version of Geist: The Sin-Eaters. The character creation process is not about regular ghosts. It's about a specific subset of ghosts that have used a very different type of Manifestation (i.e. not Claim) on a dead human to form a compound being that isn't at all similar to how the Claimed work mechanically.
                  The only reason I would recommend Geist 2e is if you want to read up on the difference between ghosts and geister, and want to know more about the Underworld. But if your idigam only snatches ghosts that are just lingering in the living world then there's really no need.

                  What you need to create ghosts is the ephemeral entity creation rules that are available in many 2e core books. It's almost identical to that of the spirit creation rules in WtF 2e except that in Werewolf they simply removed the parts that had to do with ghosts.
                  If you have the CofD core book, Mage 2e core book or Promethean 2e core book, then you already have the rules. If not, you can get them for free in the God-Machine Chronicle Rules Update.


                  Bloodline: The Stygians
                  Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                  Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Tessie View Post

                    Don't bother with either version of Geist: The Sin-Eaters. The character creation process is not about regular ghosts. It's about a specific subset of ghosts that have used a very different type of Manifestation (i.e. not Claim) on a dead human to form a compound being that isn't at all similar to how the Claimed work mechanically.
                    The only reason I would recommend Geist 2e is if you want to read up on the difference between ghosts and geister, and want to know more about the Underworld. But if your idigam only snatches ghosts that are just lingering in the living world then there's really no need.

                    What you need to create ghosts is the ephemeral entity creation rules that are available in many 2e core books. It's almost identical to that of the spirit creation rules in WtF 2e except that in Werewolf they simply removed the parts that had to do with ghosts.
                    If you have the CofD core book, Mage 2e core book or Promethean 2e core book, then you already have the rules. If not, you can get them for free in the God-Machine Chronicle Rules Update.

                    Perfect! Thank you!

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                    • #11
                      If you want a different version/type/species of Ghost Claimed, there is one in Night Horrors: Wicked Dead, which is a bit more.. vicious, let put it this way. It is made in 1e rules in mind, however, so some conversion may be required.


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by LostLight View Post
                        If you want a different version/type/species of Ghost Claimed, there is one in Night Horrors: Wicked Dead, which is a bit more.. vicious, let put it this way. It is made in 1e rules in mind, however, so some conversion may be required.
                        Ooo... That sounds interesting. I'll have to take a look at that.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Tessie View Post

                          Don't bother with either version of Geist: The Sin-Eaters. The character creation process is not about regular ghosts. It's about a specific subset of ghosts that have used a very different type of Manifestation (i.e. not Claim) on a dead human to form a compound being that isn't at all similar to how the Claimed work mechanically.
                          Minor correction on this note: While the big selling point about Geists is their ability to develop and use the Bound Manifestation that constitutes the Bound splat, Geists a) can develop the Claim Manifestation, b) don't always develop the Bound Manifestation, and c) aren't always incentivized to use Bound over Claim.

                          Bound is appealing for Geists who want to rise in Rank without risking the Rivers again, feel incentivized to resolve their Remembrance as the way to directly resolve their Burden* or other post-life interests, and are open to having a partner in the process.

                          Claim is appealing for Geists who don't want to work around another person while dealing with the flesh, don't consider their Remembrance essential to resolving their post-life concerns, and correspondingly either don't feel the need to rise in Rank or summarily lack the fear of the Rivers as a means to do so.

                          I didn't bring it up in LostLight's Ghost Are People Critique thread, but the sort of Bad Geists that thread was asking questions about are more likely to be incentivized by Claim over Bound.
                          Last edited by ArcaneArts; 08-19-2020, 03:36 PM.


                          Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
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                          Feminine pronouns, please.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
                            Minor correction on this note: While the big selling point about Geists is their ability to develop and use the Bound Manifestation that constitutes the Bound splat, Geists a) can develop the Claim Manifestation, b) don't always develop the Bound Manifestation, and c) aren't always incentivized to use Bound over Claim.

                            Bound is appealing for Geists who want to rise in Rank without risking the Rivers again, feel incentivized to resolve their Remembrance as the way to directly resolve their Burden* or other post-life interests, and are open to having a partner in the process.

                            Claim is appealing for Geists who don't want to work around another person while dealing with the flesh, don't consider their Remembrance essential to resolving their post-life concerns, and correspondingly either don't feel the need to rise in Rank or summarily lack the fear of the Rivers as a means to do so.

                            I didn't bring it up in LostLight's Ghost Are People Critique thread, but the sort of Bad Geists that thread was asking questions about are more likely to be incentivized by Claim over Bound.
                            I said character creation, which is about the Bound and the Geister that have performed the Bargain. I'm well aware that Geister can have other Manifestations, but those rules are also present in many other rulebooks and OP already said they don't have the 2e core book.


                            Bloodline: The Stygians
                            Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                            Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Tessie View Post

                              I said character creation, which is about the Bound and the Geister that have performed the Bargain. I'm well aware that Geister can have other Manifestations, but those rules are also present in many other rulebooks and OP already said they don't have the 2e core book.
                              Ah, missed that. My bad.


                              Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                              The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                              Feminine pronouns, please.

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