Is WtF 2E line incomplete?

[wyrdhamster]

And I mean in most basic, fundamental way of running most basic chronicle of WtF 2E, where you got all the tools to prepare it smoothly as Storyteller.

I feel that in Werewolf 2E line we do not have proper support for 2 of 5 their main Tribes antagonists, even now, with Shunned by the Moon. Namely. Spirit-Ridden/Claimed and Hosts do not have proper mechanics in 2E to run them as antagonists for Hunters in Darkness and Storm Lords characters - you just got bunch of random examples for them in Shunned, not detailing any more concrete, like powers or banishing/fighting tactics. At least Pure got their new powers in supplement...

[21C Hermit]

You mean stuff beyond Dread Powers, that is?

[wyrdhamster]

You mean stuff beyond Dread Powers, that is?

Like Predators 1E level look into antagonists in 2E - and fighting them. I still do not know how you should fight Spirit-Ridden for Storm Lords, for example. What exactly they doing to hunt them? How they freeing humans from Riding? Are Bans and Banes taking hook into 'exorcism'? Are Storm Lords even 'exorcisms' Ridden victims, not killing monsters on sight?

Not too mention classical Host forms are not updated - Predators were having 3 different forms for Azlu and Beshilu, which are most common Hosts in game setting. In 2E we have only 1 form of each in corebook and nothing in Shunned.

[21C Hermit]

Mechanics-wise, perhaps. But lore-wise, doesn’t 2E assume that anything not invalidated (like Unihar) still holds? So things like hunting tactics and enemy behaviors detailed from 1E should still work.

[wyrdhamster]

So things like hunting tactics and enemy behaviors detailed from 1E should still work.

So 'steal' anything from Predators for Storm Lords on Ridden - and recreate anything about Hosts from it by yourself for Hosts? 😥

[21C Hermit]

Actually, the Horror Creation rules from the CofD core should technically work fine, right?

I blame wordcount

[Bunyip]

And I mean in most basic, fundamental way of running most basic chronicle of WtF 2E, where you got all the tools to prepare it smoothly as Storyteller.

In the most basic, fundamental way of running the most basic chronicle of WtF 2E, no, it isn’t incomplete.

[Tessie]

Like Predators 1E level look into antagonists in 2E - and fighting them. I still do not know how you should fight Spirit-Ridden for Storm Lords, for example. What exactly they doing to hunt them? How they freeing humans from Riding? Are Bans and Banes taking hook into 'exorcism'? Are Storm Lords even 'exorcisms' Ridden victims, not killing monsters on sight?

You could look up the rules for the Manifestations to see how you can deal with them. Those rules are right there in the core book. Just read the Manifestation Conditions you'd like to apply on an NPC and take a refresher on the general spirit rules, and you're good to go.
Tactics are probably not something you can describe easily since different spirits can act quite different; especially if they're Claimed and have evolved Dread Powers as that just makes them more unique.
What I do think is missing is information on what views Storm Lords has on the Ridden: How far are they expected to go to exorcise the spirit before resorting to violence? This kind of vagueness plagues the entirety of the 2e gamelines. Not putting any firm limits opens up a lot of possibility for adjusting such things to your own game, but it's often to the point where it can be really difficult to determine what's even in the ballpark of being intended. Especially for those who haven't played these games for many years and/or discuss the games online with a larger community.

Not too mention classical Host forms are not updated - Predators were having 3 different forms for Azlu and Beshilu, which are most common Hosts in game setting. In 2E we have only 1 form of each in corebook and nothing in Shunned.

You've got the rules for them and you've got examples of various different Hosts to see how the rules works in practice. What you don't have is statblocks for the various Azlu and Beshilu forms that you could just drop into a game, but in my opinion it's often better to design your antagonists to fit your game. The increased workload on the ST is a valid concern, though. Not everyone have enough spare time to stat up monsters/NPCs as their regular session prepping (or feel comfortable improvising them on the spot). It's a trade-off, and Onyx Path (and White Wolf before them) has chosen to provide the tools to create your own entities rather than giving you finished products. But it certainly does not mean the game is incomplete.

[jadeite]

What happened to the book on the Tribes that was mentioned a few years ago? It might have been a good place to publish the other tribal pillars with their different approaches in hunting their prey.

[Aurumae]

What happened to the book on the Tribes that was mentioned a few years ago? It might have been a good place to publish the other tribal pillars with their different approaches in hunting their prey.

Secrets of the Tribes. It ended up getting canned

[nofather]

There just hasn't been any official word on it, actually. Everything publicly announced and worked on is in the Monday Meetings list. We've been told to ask Paradox about things not on it, as OPP legally can't say anything about them.

Regarding completion, it's more that second edition doesn't get into the depth that first edition did with its abundance of books. I'm not sure what trouble you're having making claimed or host antagonists but there's more of a lack of information on important things like the Hisil. As seen in the inspirational media section, it still leans heavily on first edition books.

[Amravanti]

There's no reason to claim the book isn't complete. There's enough to run the antagonists. Just say you want more content. You'd get a lot more people agreeing with you.

[DocSteve2020]

I personally think the line needs a Shadow book, taking and upgrading the Spirit stats from Predators, adding the core Lodges that haven't been detailed yet in 2e, as well as just adding a whole bunch of new material involving the Hisil.

[Helur]

And I mean in most basic, fundamental way of running most basic chronicle of WtF 2E, where you got all the tools to prepare it smoothly as Storyteller.

I feel that in Werewolf 2E line we do not have proper support for 2 of 5 their main Tribes antagonists, even now, with Shunned by the Moon. Namely. Spirit-Ridden/Claimed and Hosts do not have proper mechanics in 2E to run them as antagonists for Hunters in Darkness and Storm Lords characters - you just got bunch of random examples for them in Shunned, not detailing any more concrete, like powers or banishing/fighting tactics. At least Pure got their new powers in supplement...

I think every book of wtf is quite solid but I have a similar feeling.
The game is good, solid, we have everything we need to play and we have insights on enemies and the pack mentality, but the hype is dead, and inspiration is going down.
We have many hunting grounds metaplots in the books, but the game totally lack any kind of well built territory, like Rocky mountains in first edition or Chicago, which for me, was a great thing.

Is the cofd slowly dying or what? No books in progam, not even for requiem or awakening? I have to say that it's really disappointing.

[wyrdhamster]

Is the cofd slowly dying or what? No books in progam, not even for requiem or awakening? I have to say that it's really disappointing.

There are some in CoD fandom that points to this, me included - discussion start from this post in this topic...

However, talking about general CoD future is not place for here in this topic - move it to the topic linked above by me.