Is WtF 2E line incomplete?

[Helur]

There are some in CoD fandom that points to this, me included - discussion start from http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/1446753-cod-any-plans-for-the-future?p=1448950#post1448950"]this post in this topic[/URL]...

However, talking about general CoD future is not place for here in this topic - move it to the topic linked above by me.

Thanks I missed that.

[Primordial newcomer]

I think every book of wtf is quite solid but I have a similar feeling.
The game is good, solid, we have everything we need to play and we have insights on enemies and the pack mentality, but the hype is dead, and inspiration is going down.
We have many hunting grounds metaplots in the books, but the game totally lack any kind of well built territory, like Rocky mountains in first edition or Chicago, which for me, was a great thing.

Is the cofd slowly dying or what? No books in progam, not even for requiem or awakening? I have to say that it's really disappointing.

There is a mage book coming. We still have Deviant, mummy, changeling, and hunter books coming. Give the devs time. They already have a lot

[wyrdhamster]

There is a mage book coming. We still have Deviant, mummy, changeling, and hunter books coming. Give the devs time. They already have a lot

But no Werewolf 2E book announced, in longer time frame. I want you all remind that in CoD normal development time ( years 2005-2012 ) Werewolf 1E got one book a year, not 1 per 4 years now ( and fifth year is underway... ) And, with other books for other gamelines written all the time. Like you mentioned - we have only books produced that are announced now from Kickstarters - beside maybe Mage 2E, that got 2 supplements announced in 2017, if I remember correctly. ( And still not got those, may I add. )

But talks outside of Werewolf 2E gameline, on general CoD line situation, move to the linked before topic.

[Satchel]

But no Werewolf 2E book announced, in longer time frame. I want you all remind that in CoD normal development time ( years 2005-2012 ) Werewolf 1E got one book a year, not 1 per 4 years now.... And, with other books for other gamelines written all the time.

It is my ardent hope that you understand the difference between "two license-holders ago, two economic recessions ago, in the first edition of the gameline beginning fifteen years prior, when the company prefers not to make redundant books and that's easier to avoid for completely new material, Werewolf had a bunch of books that covered a broad swathe of conceptual ground before or leading up to the company switching its business model away from print and then wasn't allowed to call its Second Edition a second edition for two years" and "in six years of runtime that have included a two-year global pandemic, a bunch of staffing shake-ups of Onyx Path's recurring freelancer devs and writers for the franchise, four new gamelines to share attention and/or allude to crossovers with, a series of large historical setting books to use with all the lines (including Werewolf), a big event-crossover book, about five other Second Editions to roll out (some of them with bigger changes to address than unihar not being a thing), the game from the company's first Kickstarter still getting established splats rolled out for its new edition, and many more things besides, Werewolf has not had a lot of new books to itself."

This edition started out kneecapped in a not-insubstantial way and Werewolf doesn't have Kickstarter stretch goals it still needs to deliver while the franchise untangles the rest of its unfolding process. There have been anime adaptations that have taken longer to get a new season out than it's been between any of the 2e lines' supplements. Relax.

[Primordial newcomer]

But no Werewolf 2E book announced, in longer time frame. I want you all remind that in CoD normal development time ( years 2005-2012 ) Werewolf 1E got one book a year, not 1 per 4 years now ( and fifth year is underway... ) And, with other books for other gamelines written all the time. Like you mentioned - we have only books produced that are announced now from Kickstarters - beside maybe Mage 2E, that got 2 supplements announced in 2017, if I remember correctly. ( And still not got those, may I add. )

But talks outside of Werewolf 2E gameline, on general CoD line situation, http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/1446753-cod-any-plans-for-the-future/page2#post1448950"]move to the linked before topic[/URL].

The hedge is also way after the kickstarter. And there are so many books to be made still. It's just not in the cards to announce more when it takes forever for the current ones to show

[Lyrics Of War]

I would have loved to see the tribes 2.0 book. But oh well. For what it’s worth I agree with you, it feels not complete. Not on the part of the books but more because of the fundamental changes made to the line that COULD have become more and are stopped by logistical or company reasons.

It also appears as if paradox is dove tailing forsaken into apocalypse, which is its own tragedy.

[Satchel]

It also appears as if paradox is dove tailing forsaken into apocalypse, which is its own tragedy.

This is a sufficiently preposterous assertion that I'm going to have to ask you to explain.

[Lyrics Of War]

This is a sufficiently preposterous assertion that I'm going to have to ask you to explain.

So you remember years ago when they said “one word of darkness?” And here we are, years later and apocalypse is undergoing a shift bringing it in line with the changes that forsaken first had made.

The lack of new, or support at all, for forsaken is pretty telling. That I’m hearing tribes of the moon got canned is kinda telling. And here we have apocalypse taking a very obvious directional shift. Regardless of what people say, the cultures of the tribes are shifting to ideological perspectives, a forsaken 1st trait. The umbra is turning into the hisil. Transferring into the umbra is going to be harder, probably going to include loci. The gift mechanics are sounding effectively the same as forsakens.

It’s going to come down to why bother producing two werewolf lines when you get what you want by merging both.

That’s not to say it’ll be a bad game. It’s likely going to be a good game. With good, solid mechanics.

Similarly have we had anything new for requiem lately? And v5 has requiem vibes from what I’m hearing from people. I’ve never played classic vtm so I can’t comment on that.

Just seems to be the most likely direction the company is going.

[Satchel]

And here we are, years later and apocalypse is undergoing a shift bringing it in line with the changes that forsaken first had made.
[…]
And here we have apocalypse taking a very obvious directional shift. Regardless of what people say, the cultures of the tribes are shifting to ideological perspectives, a forsaken 1st trait. The umbra is turning into the hisil. Transferring into the umbra is going to be harder, probably going to include loci. The gift mechanics are sounding effectively the same as forsakens.

I don't keep up with Apocalypse and I've been in this thread long enough not to take pat simplifications like this at face value. Keep explaining.

Similarly have we had anything new for requiem lately?

Spilled Blood was last year, my dude. February 2020. To repeat: you may recall what has been going on in the world in the time between then and now.

[Bunyip]

So you remember years ago when they said “one word of darkness?” And here we are, years later and apocalypse is undergoing a shift bringing it in line with the changes that forsaken first had made.

You've just taken a few scant piences of information and leapt blindy into the darkness of a conclusion here.

Just seems to be the most likely direction the company is going.

Paradox has made no secret of their focus on the WoD and not on CoD. They also own both IPs and can draw on mechanics and concepts as they please. But looking at the small amount of information that's been released, it appears to me as being about removing as much material that is actually offensive to real, existing people and cultures, and bringing a game that is clearly a product of 30 years ago into something more appealing to today's market. And updating the world while they're at it, because we're not living in the 1990s.

Paradox may be looking at Forsaken-style mechanics to bring into W5. If they are, great, those mechanics are much better (imo) than what Apocalypse has been burdened with. However, I haven't seen anything in what they've released that suggests W5 is going to be anyting like WtF.

[Lyrics Of War]

Paradox may be looking at Forsaken-style mechanics to bring into W5. If they are, great, those mechanics are much better (imo) than what Apocalypse has been burdened with. However, I haven't seen anything in what they've released that suggests W5 is going to be anyting like WtF.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah I can agree to all that. My concern isn’t with them updating the mechanics (or some of the wider changes, given that forsaken 1st was an obvious evolution of apocalypse, given the questions it addressed in parallel.), so much as it’s a concern about the future of a line my table has enjoyed rather thoroughly.

But if you don’t see it then that’s good enough for me.

[Bunyip]

My concern isn’t with them updating the mechanics (or some of the wider changes, given that forsaken 1st was an obvious evolution of apocalypse, given the questions it addressed in parallel.), so much as it’s a concern about the future of a line my table has enjoyed rather thoroughly.

Don't get me wrong, I'm as keen as anyone that we want more Forsaken stuff out there, and frustrated that it's not happening. However, I don't think it's because Paradox is trying to dovetail Forsaken into Apocalypse, I just think it's because they have a clearly stated focus and aren't overly interested beyond that focus.

That's just my opinion. Who knows, I could be proven wrong.

[Lyrics Of War]

Don't get me wrong, I'm as keen as anyone that we want more Forsaken stuff out there, and frustrated that it's not happening. However, I don't think it's because Paradox is trying to dovetail Forsaken into Apocalypse, I just think it's because they have a clearly stated focus and aren't overly interested beyond that focus.

That's just my opinion. Who knows, I could be proven wrong.

I can believe that aswell. If apocalypse is changing gears to a darker tone that F1 has anyway, and F2 is the god slayers game then it’s like the best of both worlds for me really. Had me a good think on it last night. (I’d also like to see the Egypt dark era expanded into its own book but ya know.)

[ArcaneArts]

The problem I have with these conspiracy theories everytime it comes up is that...well, it's conspiratorial versus what actually makes sense.

If Paradox really wanted to can Chronicles so it could then freely pirate it for the new World of Darkness products....they'd just do that. With how upfront they've always been about the prioritzation of World over Chronicles, it's weird to think about them going just one step beyond and just not continuing in the trend. It'd also make any Chroniclization of World easier to argue about, because without an ongoing gameline of interest, it's easier to say "So since that's over, let's take what worked and use it over here."

Although if the conversation around the games is any indictator, the established fanbase they're trying to keep while reaching out isn't neccesarily crazy about it, since token efforts that can be called that tend to be poorly implemented and is also signalling that Paradox doesn't quite value the same thing as the established base, which is already more rickety than it should be.

Anyways and again, the logistics that are on the page, between there still being a massive backlog of CHronicles material that still need to be finished and shipped, the change in the availability of writers and developers in regards to the affairs of the past few years, and Werewolf being a pretty comprehensive gameline across it's two editions is still the more plausible of explanations. Anything else just begs why they wouldn't be more direct about it, considering there's no particular reason not to be.

[monteparnas]

I want to note that, as far as I saw it, the theory that they're joining the two lines comes mainly from people that don't actually know both lines.

V5 used a lot of ideas original from Requiem. It also implemented a lot of new ideas. As far as it goes, though, it is undoubtedly Masquerade, and only someone with no idea about how a Vampire game that isn't Masquerade can be would mistake it for a mashing with Requiem.

The same goes for Werewolf. The current arrangement basically lets OPP do whatever they want with CoD and Paradox get a share, but otherwise they're not putting their own resources on it. So CoD is only harmed in the sense that OPP doesn't have the resources to make as many books in the current market as we'd like.

Would I want Paradox to put their money and attention on CoD, too? Looking at how they work, no, I'm fine.