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List of Weird Totems and their effects on their packs

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  • List of Weird Totems and their effects on their packs

    Hey y'all I have been thinking about the idea of having weird totems, as in non-spirit totems. So I thought that we could discuss the effects that having one of these could have on your pack and then I will edit it into this list, so here is the preliminary list of weird stuff that could potentially work, and with those few i have notes for. Anyway happy discussion times peepz let's get this list formalized.

    List of strange entities as totems and their effects:

    Ghosts: Gain connection to the Dead and lose access to the Spiritual twilight. Can open Avernian Gates naturally, Ghosts can impart Gifts.

    Bound Geists: Gain connection to the Dead as opposed to the Shadow, Sin-Eater becomes as close to the pack as they are to their Geist

    Chthonians: Gain connection to the Dead, gain the River Dweller trait of your totem as your connection to the Underworld is pure. Totem in turn can stay in the material world without taking damage or suffering essence bleed when near the pack.

    Shades:

    Fiends of Duat:

    Amkhata:

    Angels: Lose access to Spiritual twilight in favor of Angelic twilight. Gets natural affinity with infrastructure, facilities, and can sense Aether + Occult matrices. The pack is hooked up to the God-Machine network through the totem. Angels can impart gifts.

    Exiles: Lose access to Spiritual twilight in favor of Angelic twilight. Gets natural affinity with infrastructure, facilities, and can sense Aether + Occult matrices. Parameters begin to influence the pack. Angels can impart gifts

    Elipdos Qashmallim:

    Lilithim Qashmallim:

    Strix:

    Ephemeral Cover Demon: Nature of the bond depends on what the emphemeral cover is, the totem bond exists even when the Demon isn't presently using the cover. If the cover is destroyed then the pack bond goes with it.

    Changelings: Through a bargain, the pack afflicts the Wild Hunt condition rather than the Siskur Dah. Elaborated on here: http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...-members/page2

    Mages:

    Supernal Entities:

    Goetia:

    Abyssal Entities:

    A Beast's Horror:

    Akathartoi:
    Last edited by Caedus; 09-17-2021, 04:36 PM.

  • #2
    I could use help with figuring out Shades, Fiends, Amkhata, Qashmallim, Abyssals, and Akathartoi

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    • #3
      I have no idea myself yet, but there was some material here that showed an example of how a ghost totem could work. Forgot what its name was, though, or who wrote it. Most likely Acrozatarim.


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      • #4
        Yeah, Acrozatarim wrote the Hangmen pack.

        Think part of the issue with some of these, like Abyssal entities, is that they tend to be pretty varied in their make-up, so the impact one Abyssal would have on a pack if they chose it as a totem would be entirely different from the impact of another.

        You also have issues with things like Amkhata and Qashmallim that have a temporary existence in the world, with the Amkhata stacking upon that their seeming lack of intelligence and being created for servitude. An Amkhata seems like it would be more of a weird packmate or ally than a totem.

        Going off of Acrozatarim's example, which no one is obliged to do but sets a pretty good standard, you would probably want to make a relatively unique effect for different types of totems like these, as each pack (and entity) is going to be different beyond their template, as well their intimate placement as a totem.
        Last edited by nofather; 09-17-2021, 10:53 PM.

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        • #5
          Small point of order: Fiends and akathartoi are explicitly the same thing.


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          • #6
            Originally posted by Satchel View Post
            Small point of order: Fiends and akathartoi are explicitly the same thing.

            Yup but one is mechanically defined in very specific ways where as your average Akathartoi is more..fluid in how they are made. And Duat in turn is the most defined lower depth.

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            • #7
              I have to agree that many of these should have unique effects as totems, both because some categories are just wildly varied (especially Abyssals, as pointed out) but also because each weird totem breaks the conventional Pack structure on a very fundamental level. As sorts of weirdness could arise from that.
              That said, this thread could very well contain multiple examples and become a good source of inspiration for others.


              Originally posted by Satchel View Post
              Small point of order: Fiends and akathartoi are explicitly the same thing.
              Fiends of Duat and Akathartoi comes from two different Lower Depths. Are you suggesting Duat and the Inferno has some cross pollination? (Not being snarky. I might legitimately have missed such a connection since I haven't read that much MtC yet.)


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              • #8
                Originally posted by Tessie View Post
                Fiends of Duat and Akathartoi comes from two different Lower Depths. Are you suggesting Duat and the Inferno has some cross pollination? (Not being snarky. I might legitimately have missed such a connection since I haven't read that much MtC yet.)
                Setting aside the history of how the Lower Depths are delineated, no; I'm referring to the literal glossary definition of a fiend in Mummy 2e's Lexicon section, which itself follows on from the Dark Eras Companion's Fall of Isereion era's Sorcerous Rites section to the point where the equivalent segment on sorcerous mechanics in 2e spells out that "fiend" is a translation of "akathartoi."


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                • #9
                  I don't think packs linked to non-spirit totems would loose access to the Shadow or to Spirit-Twilight. This isn't a property of the totem, but of the Uratha themselves as being part spirit.


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                  • #10
                    Ever since getting MtC2e, I’ve come to the conclusion binding a fiend as a pack totem is a horrid idea, because the werewolves in questions are opening themselves up to Duat’s Law of Suffering. They’d go mad, as pain devours them from within.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                      Setting aside the history of how the Lower Depths are delineated, no; I'm referring to the literal glossary definition of a fiend in Mummy 2e's Lexicon section, which itself follows on from the Dark Eras Companion's Fall of Isereion era's Sorcerous Rites section to the point where the equivalent segment on sorcerous mechanics in 2e spells out that "fiend" is a translation of "akathartoi."
                      You're absolutely correct. The book clearly state that Fiends of Duat and Akathartoi are the same thing. I think it makes literally zero sense that Fiends of Duat, who are defined as beings from Duat, and Akathartoi, who are defined as beings from the Inferno, would be the same thing when Duat and the Inferno are . However, I just remembered that Akathartoi once was used as name for all denizens of the Lower Depths on the account that the Inferno was the Lower Depths at one point, before the whole concept was revamped and expanded. As such, I think it's very likely the writer for that particular text simply made a mistake in equating them due to this history.


                      Bloodline: The Stygians
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Tessie View Post
                        I think it makes literally zero sense that Fiends of Duat, who are defined as beings from Duat, and Akathartoi, who are defined as beings from the Inferno, would be the same thing
                        The Inferno is Hell (every Hell, as the good Chevalier Thélème enunciates in the Horror Recognition Guide). As Lower Depths go, it's one of the closest to the material world. Its mortal progeny are the Lucifuge and their unrepentant kin, whose view of Hell includes things like "It's a City" and "the Great Pit that scours souls from existence is there." The categories of Dominion behavior are "punish sin," "kill people to make other people suffer," "corrupt the world to make people think it's not worth respecting," "corrupt society to encourage more sin," and "tempt people to sin because demons feed from sin." Anyone can summon a demon, but it's occultists who're particularly attractive targets since they can create or embellish the description of a demon as a Dominion, including the Secret Name that can be honestly conveyed as a spoken or written word, a set of numbers, an image, or any other representation of the awful experience that marked its rebirth as a true demon. Demonology is not an organized discipline, and demons can look like just about anything just as the Inferno is terrible enough to elude true description.

                        Duat is the place where souls go to be judged (and where those who are found wanting remain until they take the Devourer's offer). The first layer of Duat is the place where all the cities of demons live and tempt and torture to ease their torment when they aren't escaping or being summoned into the land of the living. In the sunlit lands, the presence of a demon corrupts its surroundings. Every fiend can leave Duat through a visual representation of its form, and gains Essence from being present for the imposition of its flavor of suffering (whether it's the one holding the knife or not). Example demons include brutal killers, order-bound guardians, gaslighting clouds of shapeshifting haze, and more, but the diversity of the group and the difficulties of Arisen memory make coherently classifying the denizens of a psychoactive experience-realm functionally impossible. Anyone can summon a fiend — every summoning ritual is an Open Rite — but sorcerers are often better equipped to take advantage and keep them in the world than the average mortal. Above all else, Duat is the place the Judges made to review the sins of humanity — it's the larder for Ammut that they defined sins to stock, populated by the souls of the condemned and the demons who torment them to ease their own suffering.

                        They're both demons from Hell. They've literally always both been demons from Hell. The finer details of their mechanics don't make a meaningful distinction unless you're especially stuck on the Egyptian mythological aesthetic of some types of fiend or the fire-and-brimstone red-guy-with-horns-and-a-pitchwork aesthetic of some types of demon. They're akathartoi either way.


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                        • #13
                          When I contemplate unusual totems I sometimes think of Idigam but more often will think of either Totems from the Primal Wild or Spirit Ochema from some Archmaster invested in the Uratha. In the case of Supernal patrons what comes to mind is the joining of causes and mythos: the fall of the Border-Marshes and the Fall, keeping out invaders from the Maeljin and Annunaki, aligning symbols of Shadow and Supernal. I haven't gone far with the idea bit maybe one of you will go crazy with it.

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                          • #14
                            The idea of a Kerberos avatar as a pack totem has some merit (lowercase ‘m’) to it.

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