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Idigam Chronicles Wekly Discussion: Moon Banished (Idigam)

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  • #61
    Speaking of which, I believe one of the origin stories for the nosferatu dovetails with the Zmai from Predators. The Brothers Worm coterie who delved into the dark heart of the earth and ate the immaculate slime of the writhing god that lived there.

    I suppose another way to look at the Idigam, though it probably wouldn't satisfy, would be to point out that, as spirit cops (or spirit slashers), following in the footsteps of Father Wolf, they've had it relatively easy. The Pure are always there, but sometimes they're less of a threat and in the end they're wolves like you, not necessarily disrupting the Gauntlet. Spirits certainly don't like you (I always viewed this as the common man vs the police, rather than outright hatred, there's usually an unspoken intimidation that these guys with guns who consider themselves the authority carry around with them, if that makes any sense), but spirits spirit and you don't often have to go to all out war with them, sometimes their rises and falls in power are entirely natural. Urged and claimed are rarities. The shartha are certainly tough, but they're nothing compared to the Plague King and the Spinner-hag.

    But the idigam were something even Father Wolf couldn't defeat. And I doubt there's many Uratha who have the access to get one to the moon. So long ago the First Pack saw Father Wolf weakening and thought they'd do the right thing and take up his mantle. The world hasn't been enveloped in the Shadow, so they've done well enough. But the idigam are back and are going to be the true test of their worth, the greatest challenge they'll ever face.
    Last edited by nofather; 05-28-2014, 10:25 PM.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
      It is worth noting, though, that there is still a foil quality to the Idigam.

      Werewolves are creatures defined by their shapeshifting, driven by their rage, supported by a celestial body, and enact several unusual powers that spring from their unique nature.

      Idigam are perpetually shifting creatures driven by their hatred who tend to get the help of celestial bodies and enact several unusual powers that spring from their unique nature.

      Which makes them awesome.
      Totally agree, and now I'm bought on "Idigam are twisted dark mirror to Uratha as a species". Maybe corellation is more vauge as in Strix vs Kindred, but very suitable.

      And I alwyas wanted to put players against Azathoth as big bad in WoD chronicle.
      Last edited by wyrdhamster; 05-31-2014, 04:24 PM.


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      • #63
        Originally posted by nofather View Post
        I suppose another way to look at the Idigam, though it probably wouldn't satisfy, would be to point out that, as spirit cops (or spirit slashers), following in the footsteps of Father Wolf, they've had it relatively easy. The Pure are always there, but sometimes they're less of a threat and in the end they're wolves like you, not necessarily disrupting the Gauntlet. Spirits certainly don't like you (I always viewed this as the common man vs the police, rather than outright hatred, there's usually an unspoken intimidation that these guys with guns who consider themselves the authority carry around with them, if that makes any sense), but spirits spirit and you don't often have to go to all out war with them, sometimes their rises and falls in power are entirely natural. Urged and claimed are rarities. The shartha are certainly tough, but they're nothing compared to the Plague King and the Spinner-hag.
        I'm just gonna point out that the only ones who would be "spirit cops" are gonna be the Bone Shadows, and that's not the imagery they convey at all.

        Are we gonna refer to Blood Talons (Lodge besides) as Uratha cops? How about the Meninna? Sharta cops?

        That's the genius of assigning each tribe a favored prey, IMO.

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        • #64
          I guess it'll depend on the 'why' of the spirit hunt. Are they just picking people at random, or are they picking targets that upset the Shadow?

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          • #65
            The Storm Lords are absolutely spirit cops, too. I see them as more of that archetype than the Shadows, in fact. And you could argue that that is the root of the Meninna's hunt, too - the Hosts upset the balance between the Shadow and the material world, and the Beshilu in particular give spirits an easy entrance into the world. Hell, as nofather said, you can easily say that the Iron Masters hunt humans *because* of their effect on the Shadow.


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            • #66
              Originally posted by NateD View Post
              The Storm Lords are absolutely spirit cops, too. I see them as more of that archetype than the Shadows, in fact. And you could argue that that is the root of the Meninna's hunt, too - the Hosts upset the balance between the Shadow and the material world, and the Beshilu in particular give spirits an easy entrance into the world. Hell, as nofather said, you can easily say that the Iron Masters hunt humans *because* of their effect on the Shadow.
              That's just forgetting all of the personal reasons one could use to justify joining a tribe. Uratha are passionate. If I'm a coroner who opens up a body and rats start to pour out of it like a broken dam and I first-change that very night? that's gonna mark me.

              If you get kidnapped and tortured halfway by the Anshega prior to your change, and still manage to conceive an auspice? Because the fuckers wanted to specifically peel it off with silver and fire? Blood freakin' Talon dude.

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              • #67
                So, I'm the cad responsible for the intial chunk of rules and background for the Idigam, while other writers like Strider are handling the specific example Idigam that the book will be featuring. I'm happy to go over some of the queries in this thread and field any others that people may have for me

                Originally posted by Lyrics Of War View Post
                Stew says they're spirits.
                They're probably spirits, depending on which (if any) of the possible options we provide is the one you choose for your game. They broadly follow the spirit ruleset but with a number of significant differences. I looked at the rules in Wolfsbane and used those as a basis, but the new Idigam have a fair number of changes - mainly in the powers department.

                Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                The Fenric comparison right on the heels of "they're not cosmic horrors" gives me ample cause to believe Stew when he says that he's sleep-deprived; I can't help but look at the latter as an excuse to talk shit about Lovecraft, which, while not unreasonable, is kind of off-subject. They're ancient shifting monstrosities from before history that truck with mysterious beings from beyond the stars and that's generally enough to ping most people's understanding of the popcultural version of Lovecraft.
                They're not cosmic horror in that they don't reflect a horror viewpoint of a vast, horrible and uncaring universe that you will be crushed by more or less incidentally. The Idigam know the Uratha and they mostly hate them in a way that is very personal and immediate.

                Originally posted by Ephsy View Post
                Nothing you didn't got if you read Wolfbane. Color me disappointed.
                There's quite a few differences to the Wolfsbane ruleset - it was solid enough but I was given a chance to rework it and I wasn't going to pass that up. You'll be getting some more detailed coverage of the differences between Earth-Bound and Moon-Banished, some expansion of the 'life cycle' of the Idigam and a wide suite of new Dread Powers alongside templates to represent the changed and warped servants that the Idigam create.


                - Chris Allen, Aberrant Line Developer, Freelance Writer

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Ephsy View Post

                  Really subpar previews as a whole if you compare them with the ones done for B&S. Why? Because it's not the writers who do the spoilers, and raise hype on them. Who have actual time to reply to us, address our concerns, and do some revision right there.
                  Well, I can quite happily chat with people and reply about it here in this thread; I would have done so earlier but was in a very muddy field over the Bank Holiday weekend then been busy with work since. Finally have some free time combined with energy!


                  - Chris Allen, Aberrant Line Developer, Freelance Writer

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                  • #69
                    Earth-Bound and Moon-Banished. This is a delicious teaser.

                    Are the Su'ur in affect? Wolfsbane was ambiguous about them, saying the Gurdilag could do it, but the others might not be able to. I suppose using that, it'd be an Earth-bound ability?

                    Always nice to have some free time, our group got a ton of gaming in this last three day weekend, it was really refreshing.

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                    • #70
                      There's quite a few differences to the Wolfsbane ruleset - it was solid enough but I was given a chance to rework it and I wasn't going to pass that up. You'll be getting some more detailed coverage of the differences between Earth-Bound and Moon-Banished, some expansion of the 'life cycle' of the Idigam and a wide suite of new Dread Powers alongside templates to represent the changed and warped servants that the Idigam create.
                      See? I wouldn't have been nearly so disappointed if this was in the actual blog. This also proves my point.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by nofather View Post
                        Earth-Bound and Moon-Banished. This is a delicious teaser.

                        Are the Su'ur in affect? Wolfsbane was ambiguous about them, saying the Gurdilag could do it, but the others might not be able to. I suppose using that, it'd be an Earth-bound ability?

                        Always nice to have some free time, our group got a ton of gaming in this last three day weekend, it was really refreshing.
                        Yes, Su'ur are in. The ability to make a specific type of servitor is a given power pick, so an Idigam that can, say, tear the souls out of humans and make them into claimed (or use the souls as weird Twilight minions) won't necessarily be able to make Su'ur, and vice versa. Su'ur themselves are fairly straightforward in nature to make, as templates go, but especially an Idigam with a mixture of Uratha Su'ur and Heralds will be a pretty terrifying opponent to go up against. They are explicitly not just an Earth-Bound thing - I'm pretty sure Gurdilag was a Moon-Banished, after all.


                        - Chris Allen, Aberrant Line Developer, Freelance Writer

                        ​Like my work? Feel like helping me stay supplied with tea? Check out my Patreon

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Acrozatarim View Post

                          Yes, Su'ur are in. The ability to make a specific type of servitor is a given power pick, so an Idigam that can, say, tear the souls out of humans and make them into claimed (or use the souls as weird Twilight minions) won't necessarily be able to make Su'ur, and vice versa. Su'ur themselves are fairly straightforward in nature to make, as templates go, but especially an Idigam with a mixture of Uratha Su'ur and Heralds will be a pretty terrifying opponent to go up against. They are explicitly not just an Earth-Bound thing - I'm pretty sure Gurdilag was a Moon-Banished, after all.
                          Moon Banished is Idigam in first tongue. Is there a term for the Earth-Bound in the language of the spirits? if so, which is it?

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Acrozatarim View Post
                            They're not cosmic horror in that they don't reflect a horror viewpoint of a vast, horrible and uncaring universe that you will be crushed by more or less incidentally. The Idigam know the Uratha and they mostly hate them in a way that is very personal and immediate.
                            And while I can appreciate that, TVTropes, shining beacon of words-mean-things that it is, caused and/or amplified a lot of mutation of the term in the public consciousness to be an objective noun interchangeable with "eldritch abomination," which is in all likelihood what people actually meant when they called the idigam a homonym for a thematic noun signifying big-world-small-you style spookiness.

                            This is what I mean when I say it looks like a demonstration of sleep deprivation to throw out the name of an entity whose setting literally refers to it as a Great Old One as an example of what the idigam are like not two breaths after explaining why the narrative of the idigam is not one of cosmic horror in response to what were in all likelihood people misusing the term by describing the idigam as "cosmic horrors."

                            Internet Whisper-Down-The-Lane happens. It is awful.


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                            • #74
                              Even if their theme is not exactly cosmic horror and I think the distinction is pretty important, the Idigam could be described literally as "cosmic horrors" if you think about.

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                              • #75
                                Yeah, I get that stew was trying to dispel the association between the Idigam and the works of Lovecraft. But they are pretty literally both cosmic and horror. And they do share more than a few similarities with the eldritch creatures of the cthulu mythos. The themes may be different, but superficially they are difficult to distinguish.


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