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"Princess Mononoke" as Werewolf spirituality story

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  • "Princess Mononoke" as Werewolf spirituality story

    As I'm preparing for running Shadow Realm in our game, I'm rewatching Princess Mononoke. It is official inspiration for Forsaken gameline on Spirits matters and I would like you to clear my understanding of examples in it. Here are my questions:

    1. Nago, giant boar attacking Ashitaka's village, is greater spirit ( probably Rank 4, on my eye ) in the flesh of very large boar, correct? So in Werewolf setting, after being slain in this flesh he will return to Shadow Realm, and appears once again after some time, yes?

    2. If yes Ashitaka really wouldn't kill him, Nago could posses next boar and attack villagers - this is why shamaness of settlement is begging dying Nago to not returning in his wrath, correct? Because she assumes he could return in vengeance?

    3. Nago is tainted by some corrupt force. I understand that in Werewolf game this would be effect of works from Malejins or Idigams, yes? They could twist the spirit in to something like this? In movie this is said that Wrath burned his body - so Boar Spirit in the beast was driven mad, get Influences of Wrath by some alien source ( probably Malejins ) and changed in to half mad demon, yes?

    4. If Ashitaka was "cursed" by spiritual poison - is this some kind of Numina, or maybe general power of Corrupted Spirits?

    5. Moro, Wolf Goddess, is giant she-wof from the same reasons as Nago - they are possesing normal animals for decades, even centuries, and let them grow bodies with they power, yes?

    6. Kodama are relative weak spirits of trees - but are they Rank 1 or Rank 2 spirits?

    More questions on the way.


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  • #2
    1: It might be a boar spirit, but it could be a powerful spirit riding or claiming a boar, yeah. See 5.

    2: More of a question about the movie, but sounds like it.

    3: As far as we've seen idigam have a sort of aura of influence that does bring spirits around them, since they're really powerful spirit beings. Also it's more that Wounds taint things, and the Maeljin's servants act to spread the taint. But anything can act as a corruptive influence. Predators, I believe, mentions how river spirits that get polluted may act as sort of drug addicts in regards to them, using their power to keep getting polluted so they can get their fixes. Diaboli (demonic spirits) are spirits that have been corrupted by other demons. Any of them can really do things people would consider evil, even a plain spirit that's particularly territorial, though the worms would suggest some other corruption. In the movie itself, while the industry was really affecting the nature, that's not really an evil thing, just disruptive.

    4: It could be a numina (pretty sure there's a 'poison the well' ability somewhere) , or a whisperer latching on or perhaps being ridden by a corrupting spirit that hung onto him, or yeah the influence of a corrupting spirit.

    5: Could be. I don't believe the game is a direct convert from the movie, as much as an inspiration in tone and what the spirit world is like. They didn't really have a separate world in the movie (making it more like Pangaea than post-Fall gurihal), while a ridden or claimed might fit better for Forsaken, it might also be a particularly powerful and old animal that was a particular favorite of the wolf spirits, due to her outstanding wolfness.

    6: Probably rank 1. I want to say there's wisps or something for rank 0, but I may be thinking of Exalted.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by nofather View Post
      4: It could be a numina (pretty sure there's a 'poison the well' ability somewhere) , or a whisperer latching on or perhaps being ridden by a corrupting spirit that hung onto him, or yeah the influence of a corrupting spirit.
      Interpretation with Whisperer from WoD: Inferno is interesting one - I will re-read the book on this,maybe come with more insight.

      Originally posted by nofather View Post
      5: Could be. I don't believe the game is a direct convert from the movie, as much as an inspiration in tone and what the spirit world is like. They didn't really have a separate world in the movie (making it more like Pangaea than post-Fall gurihal), while a ridden or claimed might fit better for Forsaken, it might also be a particularly powerful and old animal that was a particular favorite of the wolf spirits, due to her outstanding wolfness.
      I like idea that very powerful spirit of animal could claim normal animal of his type and by this process, the half-spirit half-flesh being is mutating to reflect spirits nature. Are there some things like those in Forsaken gameline - if yes, where are they?

      Originally posted by nofather View Post
      6: Probably rank 1. I want to say there's wisps or something for rank 0, but I may be thinking of Exalted.
      So Rank 2 spirits are roughly in human-size, yes? Like emotion spirits or even animal once - Wolf spirit Totem of the Pack would be roughly human size, 2 meter wolf?


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      • #4
        Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
        I like idea that very powerful spirit of animal could claim normal animal of his type and by this process, the half-spirit half-flesh being is mutating to reflect spirits nature. Are there some things like those in Forsaken gameline - if yes, where are they?
        Normally only weaker animal spirits claim animals, because otherwise their power in diminished instead of increased. A more powerful spirit would just fetter himself to something in the mortal realm, and range about by using Materialize. In game terms, no spirits above rank 4 would claim anything, and spirits of rank 4 that do this would already be very rare.

        Building spirit claimed animals is possible using the rules in Predators. The same rules are used as for building spirit claimed humans.

        Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
        So Rank 2 spirits are roughly in human-size, yes? Like emotion spirits or even animal once - Wolf spirit Totem of the Pack would be roughly human size, 2 meter wolf?
        Rank has nothing to do with size. It is true that more powerful spirits (rank 3 or higher) have more control over their own form and thus sometimes choose to appear larger, but this is not necessarily the case.

        The main difference between rank 1 and higher rank spirits is that rank 1 spirits are barely self aware, very much reliant on their material counterparts (if they have one) and certainly have no individual names yet. Self awareness and freedom grow with higher ranks, while reliance on their material counterparts decreases.

        Guidelines, compiled from the books:
        Rank 1
        • Lesser Gaffling
        • Just self aware
        • Still reliant on its material counterpart
        • Unable to replenish essence when its defining physical presence has disappeared (if it has one)
        • Certainly has no name

        Rank 2
        • Greater Gaffling
        • More freedom
        • Still mostly a representation of one object
        • Unable to replenish essence when its defining physical presence has disappeared (if it has one)
        • Cannot yet think outside the box

        Rank 3
        • Lesser Jaggling
        • More conceptually refined
        • Possibly part of a Descant
        • Highest rank a spirit of one specific thing can become
        • Unable to replenish essence when its defining physical presence has disappeared (if it has one)
        • More complex looks, starting to be able to modify appearance

        Rank 4
        • Greater Jaggling
        • Rarer than the above
        • Refined from different complementing concepts (different types of trees for example)
        • Rare that a single species spirit reaches this level, but could happen (for example truly powerful places)
        • Will have taken an unique name for himself

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        • #5
          Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
          I like idea that very powerful spirit of animal could claim normal animal of his type and by this process, the half-spirit half-flesh being is mutating to reflect spirits nature. Are there some things like those in Forsaken gameline - if yes, where are they?
          Not that I'm aware of. Penta explained why pretty well. But the Hosts are spirit-flesh hybrids that eat each other and get bigger and more powerful by doing so. You could make a custom Boar Host if you wanted to directly reproduce the events of the movie in a Forsaken game.


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          • #6
            Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
            Not that I'm aware of. Penta explained why pretty well. But the Hosts are spirit-flesh hybrids that eat each other and get bigger and more powerful by doing so. You could make a custom Boar Host if you wanted to directly reproduce the events of the movie in a Forsaken game.

            I don't want the Hosts. as i know they are largely antagonistic for Forsaken - hell, the new take of Hunters in Darkness states they are the favored enemy of them.

            I was thinking a slight alteration to the setting were characters aren't surprised that powerful animal spirits take the gigantic animals as they bodies in very rural places. Something like "Animal King/Queen" type of spirits. Hosts, in that game, would be vermins - they multiply, they want to become more than natural gods of nature, they want to change Material and Shadow. And "Animal Kings" are just concerned with the well being of they animals. Probably, there would be tale that Animal Royality that goes mad becomes the Hosts - so any big and powerful animal spirit would be looked as possible threat to Flesh and Spirit balance. This way we could have both Animal Royality and Hosts in one game.


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            • #7
              Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post


              I don't want the Hosts. as i know they are largely antagonistic for Forsaken - hell, the new take of Hunters in Darkness states they are the favored enemy of them.

              I was thinking a slight alteration to the setting were characters aren't surprised that powerful animal spirits take the gigantic animals as they bodies in very rural places. Something like "Animal King/Queen" type of spirits. Hosts, in that game, would be vermins - they multiply, they want to become more than natural gods of nature, they want to change Material and Shadow. And "Animal Kings" are just concerned with the well being of they animals. Probably, there would be tale that Animal Royality that goes mad becomes the Hosts - so any big and powerful animal spirit would be looked as possible threat to Flesh and Spirit balance. This way we could have both Animal Royality and Hosts in one game.
              It's just that it sounds like what you want doesn't exist in Forsaken. As always, you're free to just make your own rules, but I don't think there's anything in the books that will work like that for you.


              Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

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              • #8
                Yeah, we got spirits, spirits that can materialize, spirits that can claim or ride or possess, we have hosts, changing breeds, beasts of shadow, a ton of things that can be similar. If you want outright magical animals that are nobility but not spirit but somehow affected by the spirit, I'm unaware of them existing in werewolf stuff, but the tools to make them are available.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by nofather View Post
                  If you want outright magical animals that are nobility but not spirit but somehow affected by the spirit, I'm unaware of them existing in werewolf stuff, but the tools to make them are available.
                  What would you advise for animal-spirit "god" hybrid, that isn't Host to kill on sight?


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                  • #10
                    Just a spirit that likes to manifest and personally deal with its influences.

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                    • #11
                      So Neolithic Dark Eras spoiler comes and I started to return to mine previous idea...
                      Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                      I was thinking a slight alteration to the setting were characters aren't surprised that powerful animal spirits take the gigantic animals as they bodies in very rural places. Something like "Animal King/Queen" type of spirits. Hosts, in that game, would be vermins - they multiply, they want to become more than natural gods of nature, they want to change Material and Shadow. And "Animal Kings" are just concerned with the well being of they animals. Probably, there would be tale that Animal Royality that goes mad becomes the Hosts - so any big and powerful animal spirit would be looked as possible threat to Flesh and Spirit balance. This way we could have both Animal Royality and Hosts in one game.
                      Because of this quote on Border Marches:

                      Inhabited by both material animals and the native spirits of the Shadow world that lies beyond it, the Border Marches also has native beings of its own. These Pangaens resemble spirits but are made of flesh, not ephemera. The Wise say that some of them may be Gods, trapped in the world by the disaster that ended the Time Before. The greatest are iconic symbol-gods with animal features, worshiped by the people as a pantheon of deities. Bird. Bull. Snake. Rat. Spider. Wolf.
                      So Pangaens ar mine "Animal Royality" or not?
                      Last edited by wyrdhamster; 06-21-2015, 01:35 AM.


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                        So Neolithic Dark Eras spoiler comes and I started to return to mine previous idea...


                        Because of this quote on Border Marches:



                        So Pangaens ar mine "Animal Royality" or not?
                        Pangaeans aren't Animal Royalty. Some of them are concerned with particular types of animal as well as other things, but 'animals' is not the Pangaean focus per se.


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                        • #13
                          You could have Pangaeans of completely abstract concepts, I think.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Acrozatarim View Post
                            Pangaeans aren't Animal Royalty. Some of them are concerned with particular types of animal as well as other things, but 'animals' is not the Pangaean focus per se.
                            I was thinking of Pangaeans like King of Boars or Mother of Wolves - Nago and Moro in Princess Mononoke, respectivly.


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                            • #15
                              The thing is, the Pangaeans aren't 'just' animal spirits. Father Wolf was spirit of the hunt. Destroyer wolf is a spirit of destruction.

                              Though even with their multiple hats they're still some of the most powerful spirits of animals, so other lesser spirits would look up to them.

                              They're also vastly more powerful than the things depicted in Mononoke, Fenris-Ur's mere presence in Basra threatens to wipe it off the face of the earth.

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