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If You Could Make A Werewolf Book

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  • #16
    Well there are other books some here have mentioned that I'd prefer more, there is one subject I always wanted explored from the Uratha's perspective and that was the Astral. Everything from how the Cahalith's dream magic interacts with the Oneiros to what kinds of shenanigans can go down knowing that a dreaming werewolf does not discern any barrier between his own oneiros and the Anima Mundi. There was a brief mention of some werewolves being aware of the strange realm beyond merely an interesting quirk of dreaming and thought it deserved some exploration at some point.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Red 9 View Post
      Well there are other books some here have mentioned that I'd prefer more, there is one subject I always wanted explored from the Uratha's perspective and that was the Astral. Everything from how the Cahalith's dream magic interacts with the Oneiros to what kinds of shenanigans can go down knowing that a dreaming werewolf does not discern any barrier between his own oneiros and the Anima Mundi. There was a brief mention of some werewolves being aware of the strange realm beyond merely an interesting quirk of dreaming and thought it deserved some exploration at some point.
      I wouldn't go beyond a Gift with it's facets and referring to the aptly named book 'Astral Realms' for that.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Ephsy View Post

        I wouldn't go beyond a Gift with it's facets and referring to the aptly named book 'Astral Realms' for that.
        There's an entire auspice built around dreams. There are allegedly prophets and scholars who know more about the Dreaming Earth. One can gain/lose essence from dreams whilst traveling it. There's brief mention of the importance of animal masters, anima loci and naturae. There are physical gates to the Astral within the Shadow that werewolves would be interested in. The fact that they seem to be drawn to Wellsprings is of interest.

        This all sounds more like kindling than an already well trodden path, especially if told from the Uratha's perspective. I'd be quite happy with a chapter in the back of a book dedicated to the weirder shit Uratha get up to.

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        • #19
          Apart from an elders book (god that would be good), I'd be tempted to make a werewolf book with several bits and pieces across, useful for a storyteller and those pieces not covered elsewhere is great detail (or not in great detail come 2nd edition - I suspect).

          Stuff I'd put in the book in chapter form:

          1) Mortal sorcerers - guys and gals who specifically mess around with spirits, essence, loci, make pacts with shartha and generally help things become a bit more chaotic. Disscussion how someone gets to that stage, what they can do with such power, why werewolves would want to hunt (or ally) such shamans would start the chapter. Then it would hit some mechanics, how a mortal actually does all this stuff, some handy merits, ad some discussion on the ephemeral entities rules in GMC update/werewolf 2nd core. Then maybe an example or two, one at least has to be unconventional - to get the creative juices flowing you understand.

          2) The Deep Shadow - I don't know whether this shoud go with the elders book or on its own, both seem okay. In this incarnation Deep Shadow are places the Uratha can travel to within the Shadow that don't match the real world, interstitial terrain. The Court of the City, one of Black Wolf's lairs, a death Court in the country's biggest cemetery. To make it different from any discussion from the Elders book it has to be something that normal characters can interact with. The chapter includes why you would go there, how you would go there (always a stumbling block for me to be honest), what you find there, how to present the deep shadow as opposed to the shadow. Then some mechanics, some useful rites perhaps, and how current mechanics can help.

          3) Protectorates - a chapter just discussing Protectorates in detail (assuming the core doesn't, but considering vampire 2nd ed, I will assume not too much detail). How and why they form. Ideally several reasons, a massive Pure presence, the weird nature of that particular Protectorates's hunting ground, a strangely hostile/alien spirit court, or just an Idigam. What roles exists within a Protectorate, and little tricks that Protectorates have that a load of packs just not killing each other don't have. Some examples.

          4) Lodges - I'm going to imagine Lodges get as much word count as Bloodlines got in Vampire 2nd core. This chapter (considering we have two books of wonderful Lodges and Blasphemies) is not a list of Lodges. It's a chapter describing what they are, how they form (and how PCs can form them) and how they interact with the larger community in the hunting ground (how Lodge membership affects inter-pack diplomacy). Also, how to present the larger Lodges (like Garm, Death etc) in a local setting, Lodges are quite small but they seem to be able to be set everywhere. How can they do that? Also a nice discussion on how the Lodge's patron effects the day to day lives of it's members, whether it speaks to them, or send messages would be really useful for a storyteller. Finally mechanics, how to create a Lodges for those who can't eyeball 'balance' correctly.

          5) Shadow Courts - Finally spirit Courts. How the hell do they work, scales in which they work, discuss city Courts (or multiple Courts of one city fighting) Courts of that hospital around the corner. Examples of spirits in charge of said Courts. How do werewolves interact with these Courts, what bargains or ceasefires can a pack use against these organisations?

          That's what I would do, combine smaller concepts into a grab-bag big book. I suspect that that format may not be to everyone's tastes, but seems to be a more likely way of getting these concepts into a book.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Seidmadr View Post
            Advise on the really deep Shadow. Stuff about how to run encounters with shadow gods... that kind of stuff.
            See, I'd prefer that stuff to be in a regular book about the Shadow and its denizens rather than considered a 'high power' thing only. Deep Shadow and powerful Hisil entities should be a standard part of the game, in that the ramifications of their presence and effects shouldn't be cordoned off behind a 'you must have THIS much Primal Urge' barrier.

            Originally posted by Xenorath View Post
            What I think is sorely missing from WtF in both editions is a book about humans. Since humans are the preferred prey of the Iron Masters, I feel like it is a necessary addition. This human book could have information about how mundane human action causes problems in the Shadow along with things like human sorcerers who have found ways to summon and bind spirits to do their bidding.
            Yeah, I'd love to do a book on humanity for Werewolf; looking at all the stuff like hiding within human communities, manipulating them and trying wide-scale effects on human populations through Resonance-gardening, interesting challenges and problems that humanity presents, threats, unusual things like human shamans and the like.

            My personal ideal would actually be five books, one per Tribe, focusing on that Tribe, its favoured prey, and a halo of 'associated concepts' - so the Bone Shadow one would cover Bone Shadows, spirits, and also be the Shadow sourcebook in general, for example.

            Originally posted by Christian A View Post
            Man, I can't tell how many times I've posted this:

            A book on Pangaea, similar to what Secrets of the Ruined Temple is for Mage?
            That's a pretty great suggestion, would love to do that book.

            Originally posted by Nyx View Post
            Alternatively, I think a book of mechanical fluff, like how the senses would function post-change and other minor, overlooked details to add to the Uratha immersion.
            Isn't that pretty much Blood of the Wolf, though?


            - Chris Allen, Freelance Writer & Developer

            ‚ÄčLike my work? Feel like helping me stay supplied with tea? Check out my Patreon

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            • #21
              I think what Nyx means is an expanded Blood of the Wolf, i.e. maybe something with a bit more wordcount to cover concepts glossed over in 1e.


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              • #22
                Originally posted by Acrozatarim View Post

                Yeah, I'd love to do a book on humanity for Werewolf; looking at all the stuff like hiding within human communities, manipulating them and trying wide-scale effects on human populations through Resonance-gardening, interesting challenges and problems that humanity presents, threats, unusual things like human shamans and the like.

                My personal ideal would actually be five books, one per Tribe, focusing on that Tribe, its favoured prey, and a halo of 'associated concepts' - so the Bone Shadow one would cover Bone Shadows, spirits, and also be the Shadow sourcebook in general, for example.
                I am going to invoke the phrase your corporate masters want to hear:

                I would pay money for this.


                Revlid wrote:
                Yes, hollowing out your humanity to become an utterly utilitarian asura is the exact suggestion I would expect from you, Aiden.

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                • #23
                  The Big Book of Crossover - Werewolves have so far had the Shadow as their stomping ground. I want a book on the Uratha policing the Hedge, the Averinan Gates, the Inferno. The Uratha are all about territory and the Hunt. At some point they're bound to come across other extra dimensional entities that aren't spirits. What will they do when they finally cross paths with these wierdoes? Will their Gifts work properly? Will their Totem be able to help them? Can they find a mutually beneficial agreement? Or is the only wise course of action to turn tail and run?


                  Malkavian Madness Forum - Your pbp fix. Be it nWoD, cWoD, CoC, D&D or something else entirely, come over here and get your game on

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Acrozatarim View Post
                    My personal ideal would actually be five books, one per Tribe, focusing on that Tribe, its favoured prey, and a halo of 'associated concepts' - so the Bone Shadow one would cover Bone Shadows, spirits, and also be the Shadow sourcebook in general, for example.
                    You've got my vote. That's an awesome idea.


                    Eric Christian Berg
                    Onyx Path Freelancer
                    Promethean: The Created Second Edition, Dark Eras Companion

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Acrozatarim View Post

                      See, I'd prefer that stuff to be in a regular book about the Shadow and its denizens rather than considered a 'high power' thing only. Deep Shadow and powerful Hisil entities should be a standard part of the game, in that the ramifications of their presence and effects shouldn't be cordoned off behind a 'you must have THIS much Primal Urge' barrier.
                      Oh, that'd be the dream, of course, but I included it here, because what is out there hasn't been mentioned before. Just that it is full of strange and powerful creatures. Still, Werewolf, just like Vampire has a bit of a problem in "so... is there any difference now?" when one gets up to higher numbers of Power Stat.

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                      • #26
                        My personal ideal would actually be five books, one per Tribe, focusing on that Tribe, its favoured prey, and a halo of 'associated concepts' - so the Bone Shadow one would cover Bone Shadows, spirits, and also be the Shadow sourcebook in general, for example.
                        When was the pitches season again?


                        I'm So Meta Even This Acronym

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Thorbes View Post

                          When was the pitches season again?
                          If the devs start another Kickstarter, if this isn't implemented as a planned book, it would make a darn fine tier.


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                          • #28
                            Pitch season was, what, two or three months ago? I did pitch the idea, but I don't know if they liked it and haven't yet seen any more of the future Werewolf book schedule than you guys.

                            My overall idea for how the books might play out would be:

                            Kinslayers:- Blood Talons Tribe coverage; full new coverage for the Pure and their updated 2e mechanics; heretic and schismatic werewolf groups (weird wolf-cults, strange subgroups of Uratha who follow different ideologies, etc) for Blood Talons and Forsaken in general to clash and interact with; extensive rules for challenges and conflict between Uratha whether for dominance, battle or other things, from the individual level to packs clashing with each other all the way up to Protectorate-scale conflicts; an examination of the pure 'fluff' side of Uratha vs Uratha violence, the taboos, the implications, the different ways various regional Uratha go about these things and their traditions; new fighting styles, Gifts, Rites etc around clashing between Uratha.

                            Shadow Hunters:- Bone Shadow Tribe coverage; definitive coverage of the Shadow, including Deep Shadow, all sorts of phenomena and weirdness, piles of hooks and descriptions of varied Shadow manifestations, more information about Resonance and the interplay between Flesh and Shadow, basically all the creative and mechanical support a GM needs to run the Shadow side of the game; a much deeper look at spirit organisation and politics than ever before to turn spirits into key characters and influences in a game; Totems, dedicating more wordcount to both the ideas and inspiration side of things, but also heftily expanding their mechanical side and offering a new framework to help cover the ascent and growth in power of a totem alongside its pack, the ways the totem and pack affect each other on even a subconscious level, etc; an examination of hunting spirits for the Uratha, with tools, tricks and traps that the Uratha can use against spirits and vice versa; and a section on some Big Names in the Shadow, going into more detail on some Lesser Incarnae, the Firstborn Totems etc, to help GMs with bringing such beings into the game rather than leaving them as distant entities that are never really interacted with.

                            Sacred Ground:- Hunter in Darkness Tribe coverage; new rules for territory and the surrounding issues, such as shaping your territory, making territory a key element in clashing with other Uratha, more info on Loci, the role prey take in the territory, etc; more information on the Gauntlet itself, exploring how to bring it into a game not just as a basic boundary but as a place with strange phenomena, discussion of what lies *within* it, etc; full new coverage of the Hosts, with more detailed rules than are present in the corebook and a better examination of Host society, their goals and how they go about them, including coverage for what happens when the Hosts are successful and begin to regain the divine power of their progenitors; coverage of how Uratha interact with certain other peripheral realms (possibly including the Hedge and Underworld); and maybe new Hunting Ground write-ups or examples of specific Sacred Places that the Uratha and Hunters in Darkness hold as sacred ground.

                            Watchdogs:- Iron Master Tribe coverage; more rules for humanity as prey, including specific prey-groups from cultists to corporations and how they can both be a threat to and be threatened by the Uratha; rules for human shamen expanded out of the Rites system; an examination of the difficulties of maintaining a human cover amidst society for an Uratha, the challenges of hunting in dense urban areas and amongst human communities in general, and how humans drastically shape the spiritual reflection of the world; changes in technology and science, and both the challenges Uratha can face from these, the challenges they faced in previous technological eras, and the ways technology and change contribute to the benefit of the Uratha and the Iron Masters; and coverage of Uratha trying to affect the human population on a much larger scale, like trying to shape the destiny of nations or enslave entire regions to the machinations of spirit-gods or whatnot.

                            Heirs to the Hunt:- Storm Lord Tribe coverage; deeper coverage of Claimed with more mechanics, as well as new types of Claimed horror; an examination of other weird elements of possessions and otherworldy invaders, including new antagonist types; Forsaken politics, including on a wide scale, including traditions and cultures around thereof, how Tribes and packs and Lodges interact to affect the balance of power; more extensive coverage around Protectorates, including how and why they form, system support for Protectorates and their effects, etc; and wordcount and more mechanical support for high Primal Urge werewolves, the paths available for them to take, how they affect the world and how they, in turn, are changed.

                            If you like these kinds of ideas and want to see them happen, then the best suggestion I have is to contact my corporate masters Let OP know that you like the notion. Can't guarantee that it will make these books happen or anything, but worth at least communicating to OP what you want to see in the line in future!


                            - Chris Allen, Freelance Writer & Developer

                            ‚ÄčLike my work? Feel like helping me stay supplied with tea? Check out my Patreon

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Acrozatarim View Post
                              Pitch season was, what, two or three months ago? I did pitch the idea, but I don't know if they liked it and haven't yet seen any more of the future Werewolf book schedule than you guys.

                              My overall idea for how the books might play out would be:

                              Kinslayers:- Blood Talons Tribe coverage; full new coverage for the Pure and their updated 2e mechanics; heretic and schismatic werewolf groups (weird wolf-cults, strange subgroups of Uratha who follow different ideologies, etc) for Blood Talons and Forsaken in general to clash and interact with; extensive rules for challenges and conflict between Uratha whether for dominance, battle or other things, from the individual level to packs clashing with each other all the way up to Protectorate-scale conflicts; an examination of the pure 'fluff' side of Uratha vs Uratha violence, the taboos, the implications, the different ways various regional Uratha go about these things and their traditions; new fighting styles, Gifts, Rites etc around clashing between Uratha.

                              Shadow Hunters:- Bone Shadow Tribe coverage; definitive coverage of the Shadow, including Deep Shadow, all sorts of phenomena and weirdness, piles of hooks and descriptions of varied Shadow manifestations, more information about Resonance and the interplay between Flesh and Shadow, basically all the creative and mechanical support a GM needs to run the Shadow side of the game; a much deeper look at spirit organisation and politics than ever before to turn spirits into key characters and influences in a game; Totems, dedicating more wordcount to both the ideas and inspiration side of things, but also heftily expanding their mechanical side and offering a new framework to help cover the ascent and growth in power of a totem alongside its pack, the ways the totem and pack affect each other on even a subconscious level, etc; an examination of hunting spirits for the Uratha, with tools, tricks and traps that the Uratha can use against spirits and vice versa; and a section on some Big Names in the Shadow, going into more detail on some Lesser Incarnae, the Firstborn Totems etc, to help GMs with bringing such beings into the game rather than leaving them as distant entities that are never really interacted with.

                              Sacred Ground:- Hunter in Darkness Tribe coverage; new rules for territory and the surrounding issues, such as shaping your territory, making territory a key element in clashing with other Uratha, more info on Loci, the role prey take in the territory, etc; more information on the Gauntlet itself, exploring how to bring it into a game not just as a basic boundary but as a place with strange phenomena, discussion of what lies *within* it, etc; full new coverage of the Hosts, with more detailed rules than are present in the corebook and a better examination of Host society, their goals and how they go about them, including coverage for what happens when the Hosts are successful and begin to regain the divine power of their progenitors; coverage of how Uratha interact with certain other peripheral realms (possibly including the Hedge and Underworld); and maybe new Hunting Ground write-ups or examples of specific Sacred Places that the Uratha and Hunters in Darkness hold as sacred ground.

                              Watchdogs:- Iron Master Tribe coverage; more rules for humanity as prey, including specific prey-groups from cultists to corporations and how they can both be a threat to and be threatened by the Uratha; rules for human shamen expanded out of the Rites system; an examination of the difficulties of maintaining a human cover amidst society for an Uratha, the challenges of hunting in dense urban areas and amongst human communities in general, and how humans drastically shape the spiritual reflection of the world; changes in technology and science, and both the challenges Uratha can face from these, the challenges they faced in previous technological eras, and the ways technology and change contribute to the benefit of the Uratha and the Iron Masters; and coverage of Uratha trying to affect the human population on a much larger scale, like trying to shape the destiny of nations or enslave entire regions to the machinations of spirit-gods or whatnot.

                              Heirs to the Hunt:- Storm Lord Tribe coverage; deeper coverage of Claimed with more mechanics, as well as new types of Claimed horror; an examination of other weird elements of possessions and otherworldy invaders, including new antagonist types; Forsaken politics, including on a wide scale, including traditions and cultures around thereof, how Tribes and packs and Lodges interact to affect the balance of power; more extensive coverage around Protectorates, including how and why they form, system support for Protectorates and their effects, etc; and wordcount and more mechanical support for high Primal Urge werewolves, the paths available for them to take, how they affect the world and how they, in turn, are changed.

                              If you like these kinds of ideas and want to see them happen, then the best suggestion I have is to contact my corporate masters Let OP know that you like the notion. Can't guarantee that it will make these books happen or anything, but worth at least communicating to OP what you want to see in the line in future!

                              So... to show how much I love the idea, do I reply here, or should I message someone official?

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                              • #30
                                @Acrozatarim: That gotta happen.

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