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Siskur-Dah - 2ed Sacred Hunt and it's secrets

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  • Siskur-Dah - 2ed Sacred Hunt and it's secrets

    So in 2ed, Siskur-Dah is 2nd dot Rite that almost all Uratha do - because "Wolf Must Hunt". But there are some problems with that. Do not get me wrong, I really love this concept - but some things just arise. Like...

    Should not be the "free" Rite? Every werewolf on the Earth must do this at least once per month. Their Auspices and Tribes culture is totally based on this Sacred Hunt. New corebook sounds like every Uratha is calling the Hunt on the whims of his Blood. So why does every character need to have 2 dots in Rites, if it's so crucial and inner to werewolf state to use for them? It's illogical, in-setting and outside of it. Should not just Uratha get ability to invoke Scared Hunt, just like they Reaching to the Shadow Realm or shapeshift - things that are inner abilites of races, but still the need to learn? If the Hunt is "in their Blood", why do all players should pay for it with extra Experience? Or at least why it's not 1 dot Rite, that even cubs are taught in few days after First Change? Why 2nd dot one is now?

    Also, I have multi-Tribe PCs pack - one (Alpha) Blood Talon, one Bone Shadow and two Hunters in Darkness. In game they are fighting with Bale Hounds pack. / For rare those that do not know them from 1ed - Bale Hounds are Uratha that works for Maeljins, Lords of Wounds, nasty types - their bosses are mentioned in sidebar on page 76 of 2ed corebook / So this is the Sacred Hunt question - If PCs are going to face werewolves with help of Wounds spirits, can both Blood Talon and Bone Shadow make Siskur-Dah and they effect will work for other Prey? Can characters make those Rites in the one ceremony, to save time? What can Hunters in Darkness players do, if their Tribe do not follow particular Prey that will be Hunt?

    And another question - How long Sacred Hunt works? It do not have Duration aspect mentioned in write-up. Can there be multiple Siskur-Dah Conditions on the same Uratha character, each for other Prey?


    My Hubs - MtAw 2E Legacies and System Hacks & WtF 2E Lodges and System Hacks
    MtAw 2E - History of Awakened - (almost) canonical game timeline of events
    WtF 2E - Alternative werewolves myths from around the world

  • #2
    1) Legitimately good question.

    2) The Talons declare the Hunt on the Hounds, the Shadows declare a hunt on the Wound Spirits. Easy peasy.

    3) The Hunt lasts until you or the prey is dead.
    Last edited by ArcaneArts; 03-08-2015, 05:41 PM.


    Sean K.I.W. Steele, Onyx Path Freelancer
    Working on:Night Horrors: Enemy Action
    The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey

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    • #3
      1) All werewolves start with two dots of rites. Sacred Hunt can be bought at the start with that


      Sean K.I.W. Steele, Onyx Path Freelancer
      Working on:Night Horrors: Enemy Action
      The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey

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      • #4
        Am bit tired at the moment, so don't have the energy for a full explanation of Siskur-Dah right now, but suffice to say that it's a rite because it's a sacred hunt. You are literally drawing on the laws of the Shadow that are an echo of the God of the Hunt's old place in the Hisil. This is a ritual behaviour, channeling through what you are but drawing on the wider Shadow for its power; you need to know the 'key' to unlock that ancient echo. To make it an innate ability and not a rite would, to my mind, cheapen the ritual and shamanic elements of werewolf existence. It's powerful; it's meaningful; it's not a cheap trick or piece of petty magic. It plugs right into what the werewolf is, yes, but it is also external to the werewolf at the same time. You are drawing on laws of the hunt. A hunt isn't sacred just because you say it is, you have to undertake the right actions to render it sacred.

        I'm honestly not sure how to parse your second set of queries - can you maybe rephrase them to be clearer? I think you're asking if a werewolf can have two Siskur-Dah Conditions at the same time, but then you seem to ask the same question again in the third set of queries?

        As to how long the Sacred Hunt lasts, the Resolution part of the Siskur-Dah Condition has all the info you need to know on that front.


        - Chris Allen
        Freelance Writer, The Pack / Dark Eras / Werewolf: the Forsaken 2nd Edition / Idigam Anthology / Fallen World Chronicle / Trinity Aeon

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        • #5
          I'm running a 2.0 game right now. I don't know if it is right, but this works like a charm:

          1) The primary actor starts the Sacred Hunt ritual.
          2) Any participant who also knows Sacred Hunt may add their tribal bonus.

          So if a Blood Talon and a Storm Lord both know Sacred Hunt, and both participate in the ritual, then the pack can see werewolf renown AND notice possessed, urged or claimed while they have the Siskur-Dah condition. Easy peasy.
          Last edited by Incendax; 03-08-2015, 06:49 PM.

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          • #6
            It might be a case of mechanics interfering in narrative to say otherwise ( and I am all for pushing story/feel/experience forward in that case ) but one of my favorite parts of siskur-dah is how personal it is. Going with that, I would say unless the other pack member in the above example is making rolls, they have no influence. I don't think I would care if it was 5 and 5 or ten each, but both need their skin in the game.

            I wrote up a character whom I would love to perform siskur-dah with a brawl+composure roll. Meditatively, stoically obliterating an effigy of their prey into dust, working up the pack as they feed off his silent fury, climaxing in an inspiring, victorious howl of glorious victory? That is some PERSONAL stuff going on there though..! Just because someone else is sharing the campfire you do that around, doesn't mean they are altering the experience, right? There is a certain amount of spotlight hogging needed to add your personal flavor to a rite, I would think.
            Last edited by Barbrarilen; 03-08-2015, 06:51 PM. Reason: autocorrect....!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Incendax View Post
              I'm running a 2.0 game right now. I don't know if it is right, but this works like a charm:

              1) The primary actor starts the Sacred Hunt ritual.
              2) Any participant who also knows Sacred Hunt may add their tribal bonus.

              So if a Blood Talon and a Storm Lord both know Sacred Hunt, and both participate in the ritual, then the pack can see werewolf renown AND notice possessed, urged or claimed while they have the Siskur-Dah condition. Easy peasy.
              AFAIK, that's an incorrect use. Though if it works for your game, more power to you.



              Aims to write stuff you like.
              WoD | Changing Breeds, Umbra, Book of the Wyrm, Shattered Dreams
              CofD | Werewolf the Forsaken 2nd ed, Idigam Anthology, The Pack, Demon Storyteller's Guide, Hurt Locker, Dark Eras Companion, Beast Player's Guide
              The Trinity Continuum | Æon

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Barbrarilen View Post
                It might be a case of mechanics interfering in narrative to say otherwise ( and I am all for pushing story/feel/experience forward in that case ) but one of my favorite parts of siskur-dah is how personal it is. Going with that, I would say unless the other pack member in the above example is making rolls, they have no influence. I don't think I would care if it was 5 and 5 or ten each, but both need their skin in the game.

                I wrote up a character whom I would love to perform siskur-dah with a brawl+composure roll. Meditatively, stoically obliterating an effigy of their prey into dust, working up the pack as they feed off his silent fury, climaxing in an inspiring, victorious howl of glorious victory? That is some PERSONAL stuff going on there though..! Just because someone else is sharing the campfire you do that around, doesn't mean they are altering the experience, right? There is a certain amount of spotlight hogging needed to add your personal flavor to a rite, I would think.
                Desert Dreaming Hunt in the Idigam Anthology has two examples of very personalised Rites - including the Siskur-Dah.


                Aims to write stuff you like.
                WoD | Changing Breeds, Umbra, Book of the Wyrm, Shattered Dreams
                CofD | Werewolf the Forsaken 2nd ed, Idigam Anthology, The Pack, Demon Storyteller's Guide, Hurt Locker, Dark Eras Companion, Beast Player's Guide
                The Trinity Continuum | Æon

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Acrozatarim View Post
                  Am bit tired at the moment, so don't have the energy for a full explanation of Siskur-Dah right now, but suffice to say that it's a rite because it's a sacred hunt. You are literally drawing on the laws of the Shadow that are an echo of the God of the Hunt's old place in the Hisil. This is a ritual behaviour, channeling through what you are but drawing on the wider Shadow for its power; you need to know the 'key' to unlock that ancient echo. To make it an innate ability and not a rite would, to my mind, cheapen the ritual and shamanic elements of werewolf existence. It's powerful; it's meaningful; it's not a cheap trick or piece of petty magic. It plugs right into what the werewolf is, yes, but it is also external to the werewolf at the same time. You are drawing on laws of the hunt. A hunt isn't sacred just because you say it is, you have to undertake the right actions to render it sacred.

                  I'm honestly not sure how to parse your second set of queries - can you maybe rephrase them to be clearer? I think you're asking if a werewolf can have two Siskur-Dah Conditions at the same time, but then you seem to ask the same question again in the third set of queries?

                  As to how long the Sacred Hunt lasts, the Resolution part of the Siskur-Dah Condition has all the info you need to know on that front.
                  If they ever do a book similar to Lore of the Forsaken or Blood of the Wolf I would love to see you go in depth about the mystical and pshycological aspects of the rite Acrozatarim...

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bunyip View Post
                    AAFAIK, that's an incorrect use. Though if it works for your game, more power to you.
                    Yes. Seems much simpler, easier to manager, more inclusive of other pack members who may want to contribute in any give hunt but cannot because their particular prey does not show up as often in a story, and fewer hard feelings "Sorry Bob, we're don't need your sacred hunt again. Jane's is much more useful."

                    It's still a brand new game / brand new house rule. So we'll see how it pans out over time.

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                    • #11
                      Anyone can contribute in a sacred hunt. The sacred prey of a tribe is just something they focus on, it is not a limiter in any other way. A doctor has gone to medical school, but they can still try and fix a car or draw a cartoon, design a website. If something is disrupting their territory or worthy of a hunt, they'll hunt it even if it isn't any tribes sacred prey.

                      This seems an odd sticking point for some readers.
                      Last edited by nofather; 03-08-2015, 10:26 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Maybe because it isn't really explained very well.


                        The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary. - James. D. Nicoll

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Tymeaus Jalynsfein View Post
                          Maybe because it isn't really explained very well.
                          People not understanding the difference between "worthiest prey" and "only prey" is pretty much entirely on their own heads.


                          Resident Sanguinary Analyst
                          Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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                          • #14
                            The way I read it all, anyone could take the Siskur-Dah rite at character creation, but nobody in particular has to. What the rite does is start the hunt. What all of the werewolves need to do is go on such a hunt. One packmate can start it, everyone can go along. Everyone gets the condition, everyone fulfills there basic wolfy need.
                            While anyone who knows the rite can call it on just about anything (be it a spirit to feed on for essence, a zoning proposal that needs to not pass legislation, or the Fire-Touched that killed your character's mom), the Tribal affiliation of the person leading the rite colors it to add strength against that Tribe's preferred prey. After all, it's what they've hunted more than anything else since time immemorial, so their hunts focus on that.

                            Now, for the Bale hound hunt, it might be good to have someone from all three tribes know the rite and maybe find a way to have all three do the rituals in tandem. The Blood Talon can scout out the opponent wolves, the Bone Shadow can take on the supporting spirits, and the Hunter in Darkness can see and understand the wounds themselves more clearly. If only one of those things is called for, have everyone join in to help for whichever rite would help. If you need to do it all at once, your fourth man can assist with any of those three things you want, even though he's a Hunter in Darkness.

                            As a pack, decide what you want to or expect to be hunting. Make sure the Tribes who hunt that are represented and know this rite. If you don't want to hunt other werewolves, or you just don't care about being sure of their Renown, then don't worry about having a Blood-Talon that knows it.
                            Or, if you like dramatic tension, figure out what you'll be hunting and intentionally don't have the right Tribe with that rite.
                            Last edited by TerraBen; 03-09-2015, 03:55 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Other question that spring from mine Sweden game - Can Siskur-Dah be called on group of beings? Like can mine Bale Hounds pack declare whole Forsaken pack of PCs?


                              My Hubs - MtAw 2E Legacies and System Hacks & WtF 2E Lodges and System Hacks
                              MtAw 2E - History of Awakened - (almost) canonical game timeline of events
                              WtF 2E - Alternative werewolves myths from around the world

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