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A doubt - Primal Fear of the form Gauru

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  • A doubt - Primal Fear of the form Gauru

    I have a question concerning Primal Fear of Gauru form follows the text:
    • Primal Fear: Gauru force all lesser enemies – includind most humans, spirits of lower rank, and non-supernatural animals – to use Down and Dirty combat (see. P 165). If the prey hides in a group of more powerful enemies, resolve the combat as normal. In normal combat, opponents count their Dexterity or Witis to their Defense; they may not add the appropriate Skill (normally Athletics).
    Primal Fear causes all opponents lose Athletics, or only weak creatures in normal combat. A enemy Pure or other Werewolf would lose part of the defense?

  • #2
    I believe all opponents lose their Defense bonus from the relevant Skill (usually Athletics, unless they have the Defensive Combat Merit).


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    • #3
      Lesser enemies go Down and Dirty. Other enemies, the ones who don't go Down and Dirty, only get to apply the respective Attribute to their Defense, not Athletics. So, yes, if a Dalu goes up against a Gauru, his Defense loses Athletics.

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      • #4
        What if a Gauru goes against a Gauru?

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        • #5
          But it is strange you have fear like a human when facing another Uratha.
          And Gauru vs Gauru also lose skill on defense? Being a Uratha elder and the other the newly changed.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Zurtan View Post
            But it is strange you have fear like a human when facing another Uratha.
            They don't, or they'd use the Down and Dirty rules. But an Uratha fighting another Uratha knows what the Gauru form means. Danger. It's the killing form, used to end a hunt. And if the hunt doesn't end, Kuruth is just around the corner.
            Last edited by nofather; 03-25-2015, 08:11 PM.

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            • #7
              Having this come up brought to mind a question: How does Primal Fear affect Spirits?

              It seems generally fair to count Ranks 1 and 2 as "lesser" and just use down and dirty as they're about on par with a player character in terms of stats.
              From three on up, though, even with a high honorary rank a spirit's dice pools will generally outshine anyone's (save maybe someone rocking a strong Crimson Spasm). It's easy enough to get an effective Rank of 2 (first extra dot of Renown gets you there), so would matching your Honorary Rank to their Rank meet the qualifications? That seems to make less sense than beating theirs overall... Anyone have thoughts on this?

              Regardless of when they become "lesser opponents", they don't use skills for their defense. They just have the one attribute (which, given the error somewhere in the book about this, could be any of their attributes). Do you get no defense-mangling bonus to being in Gauru? Or do you just wing it with "oh about half of it would have been a skill if this was a person" or something?

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              • #8
                Spirits, especially rank 3 or higher, are going to be more like an above average mortal, they wouldn't use the down and dirty rule, I'd say, even if you were at honorary rank 5 and could do aggravated to them. I would think rank 1 and 2 would do the down and dirty combat, though, they are the 'animals and children' of the spirit world. Exceptions could probably be made for magath or particularly insane or unique spirits.

                I wouldn't use the defense change, either.

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                • #9
                  The Gauru benefits work against other Uratha in Gauru, yes.

                  Spirits do not have their Defence reduced against an Uratha in Gauru, because spirits do not add a skill to their Defence.


                  - Chris Allen
                  Freelance Writer, The Pack / Dark Eras / Werewolf: the Forsaken 2nd Edition / Idigam Anthology / Fallen World Chronicle / Trinity Aeon

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                  • #10
                    Maybe I am misunderstanding something Chris (would not be the first time)...

                    So, Werewolves are susceptible to the Lunacy now (Primal Fear is a form of Lunacy, yes)? Kind of what it sounds like you are saying above. That sounds.... a bit odd to me.


                    The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary. - James. D. Nicoll

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                    • #11
                      Primal Fear is not a form of Lunacy, or otherwise things that are immune to Lunacy would be immune to it


                      - Chris Allen
                      Freelance Writer, The Pack / Dark Eras / Werewolf: the Forsaken 2nd Edition / Idigam Anthology / Fallen World Chronicle / Trinity Aeon

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                      • #12
                        Primal Fear is just the name assigned to the special bonus power for Gauru, like Sheep's Clothing for Hishu or Badass Motherfucker for Dalu. It's just a name meant to give a little insight into why that form has that bonus.
                        Full Lunacy is another bonus from Gauru. Lunacy aside, Gauru is still scary. Hell, you're afraid of it and you don't even exist in the world

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                        • #13
                          You could also think of it as the rage pushing the werewolf to strike with such speed and ferocity that trying to defend with anything but split-second instincts is futile. Dodging with a skill requires seeing what your opponent is going to do and reacting to it. Against a gauru it's just 0-clawtotheface before you can blink.

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                          • #14
                            Ahhh... Got it... Thanks.


                            The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary. - James. D. Nicoll

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                            • #15
                              Hey All! A necrobumpmancer here!

                              The same questions rose between my friends and I disagree that this power would affect all the opponents, the focus of the power is clearly lesser enemies and it even gives examples of those kind of beings.

                              For me it works as follows:

                              Lesser enemies alone = down and dirty combat rules
                              Lesser enemies together with more powerful beings = Just all the lesser enemies lose their defense bonus from the relevant skill.

                              Keep in mind that a ghoul rat or familiar is considered supernatural animal and would not be affected as stated in the power (in italic bellow), even not all humans are affected, so why another Garou or Vampire would be affected?
                              • Primal Fear: Gauru force all lesser enemies – including most humans, spirits of lower rank, and non-supernatural animals – to use Down and Dirty combat (see. P 165). If the prey hides in a group of more powerful enemies, resolve the combat as normal. In normal combat, opponents count their Dexterity or Witis to their Defense; they may not add the appropriate Skill (normally Athletics).


                              Thanks!

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