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A doubt - Primal Fear of the form Gauru

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  • Zurtan
    started a topic A doubt - Primal Fear of the form Gauru

    A doubt - Primal Fear of the form Gauru

    I have a question concerning Primal Fear of Gauru form follows the text:
    • Primal Fear: Gauru force all lesser enemies – includind most humans, spirits of lower rank, and non-supernatural animals – to use Down and Dirty combat (see. P 165). If the prey hides in a group of more powerful enemies, resolve the combat as normal. In normal combat, opponents count their Dexterity or Witis to their Defense; they may not add the appropriate Skill (normally Athletics).
    Primal Fear causes all opponents lose Athletics, or only weak creatures in normal combat. A enemy Pure or other Werewolf would lose part of the defense?

  • Skulhamba
    replied
    Thanks for the clarification!

    Leave a comment:


  • Bunyip
    replied
    It means if you're going to use normal combat for some members of a group, use it for all members of that group.

    But, regardless of whether you use Down & Dirty or normal combat, everyone suffers the Defence penalty against Gauru. (Not that this matters so much under the Down & Dirty mechanics.)
    Last edited by Bunyip; 01-14-2017, 11:29 PM.

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  • Skulhamba
    replied
    Originally posted by Acrozatarim View Post
    Primal Fear's Defence penalty applies to all opponents in normal combat, not just lesser enemies.

    ​It's up to the Storyteller whether particular supernatural animals count as lesser enemies; but non-supernatural animals explicitly do.
    Acrozatarim, English is not my first language and I strugle with it sometimes, so please clarify what the following part means: " If the prey hides in a group of more powerful enemies,"

    Like, it makes me think that the poweronly works with lessers enemies around, is that right?

    Thanks!

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  • Acrozatarim
    replied
    Primal Fear's Defence penalty applies to all opponents in normal combat, not just lesser enemies.

    ​It's up to the Storyteller whether particular supernatural animals count as lesser enemies; but non-supernatural animals explicitly do.

    Leave a comment:


  • Skulhamba
    replied
    Hey All! A necrobumpmancer here!

    The same questions rose between my friends and I disagree that this power would affect all the opponents, the focus of the power is clearly lesser enemies and it even gives examples of those kind of beings.

    For me it works as follows:

    Lesser enemies alone = down and dirty combat rules
    Lesser enemies together with more powerful beings = Just all the lesser enemies lose their defense bonus from the relevant skill.

    Keep in mind that a ghoul rat or familiar is considered supernatural animal and would not be affected as stated in the power (in italic bellow), even not all humans are affected, so why another Garou or Vampire would be affected?
    • Primal Fear: Gauru force all lesser enemies – including most humans, spirits of lower rank, and non-supernatural animals – to use Down and Dirty combat (see. P 165). If the prey hides in a group of more powerful enemies, resolve the combat as normal. In normal combat, opponents count their Dexterity or Witis to their Defense; they may not add the appropriate Skill (normally Athletics).


    Thanks!

    Leave a comment:


  • Tymeaus Jalynsfein
    replied
    Ahhh... Got it... Thanks.

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  • Elfive
    replied
    You could also think of it as the rage pushing the werewolf to strike with such speed and ferocity that trying to defend with anything but split-second instincts is futile. Dodging with a skill requires seeing what your opponent is going to do and reacting to it. Against a gauru it's just 0-clawtotheface before you can blink.

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  • TerraBen
    replied
    Primal Fear is just the name assigned to the special bonus power for Gauru, like Sheep's Clothing for Hishu or Badass Motherfucker for Dalu. It's just a name meant to give a little insight into why that form has that bonus.
    Full Lunacy is another bonus from Gauru. Lunacy aside, Gauru is still scary. Hell, you're afraid of it and you don't even exist in the world

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  • Acrozatarim
    replied
    Primal Fear is not a form of Lunacy, or otherwise things that are immune to Lunacy would be immune to it

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  • Tymeaus Jalynsfein
    replied
    Maybe I am misunderstanding something Chris (would not be the first time)...

    So, Werewolves are susceptible to the Lunacy now (Primal Fear is a form of Lunacy, yes)? Kind of what it sounds like you are saying above. That sounds.... a bit odd to me.

    Leave a comment:


  • Acrozatarim
    replied
    The Gauru benefits work against other Uratha in Gauru, yes.

    Spirits do not have their Defence reduced against an Uratha in Gauru, because spirits do not add a skill to their Defence.

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  • nofather
    replied
    Spirits, especially rank 3 or higher, are going to be more like an above average mortal, they wouldn't use the down and dirty rule, I'd say, even if you were at honorary rank 5 and could do aggravated to them. I would think rank 1 and 2 would do the down and dirty combat, though, they are the 'animals and children' of the spirit world. Exceptions could probably be made for magath or particularly insane or unique spirits.

    I wouldn't use the defense change, either.

    Leave a comment:


  • TerraBen
    replied
    Having this come up brought to mind a question: How does Primal Fear affect Spirits?

    It seems generally fair to count Ranks 1 and 2 as "lesser" and just use down and dirty as they're about on par with a player character in terms of stats.
    From three on up, though, even with a high honorary rank a spirit's dice pools will generally outshine anyone's (save maybe someone rocking a strong Crimson Spasm). It's easy enough to get an effective Rank of 2 (first extra dot of Renown gets you there), so would matching your Honorary Rank to their Rank meet the qualifications? That seems to make less sense than beating theirs overall... Anyone have thoughts on this?

    Regardless of when they become "lesser opponents", they don't use skills for their defense. They just have the one attribute (which, given the error somewhere in the book about this, could be any of their attributes). Do you get no defense-mangling bonus to being in Gauru? Or do you just wing it with "oh about half of it would have been a skill if this was a person" or something?

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  • nofather
    replied
    Originally posted by Zurtan View Post
    But it is strange you have fear like a human when facing another Uratha.
    They don't, or they'd use the Down and Dirty rules. But an Uratha fighting another Uratha knows what the Gauru form means. Danger. It's the killing form, used to end a hunt. And if the hunt doesn't end, Kuruth is just around the corner.
    Last edited by nofather; 03-25-2015, 09:11 PM.

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