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Ask a simple question, get a simple answer: Werewolf 2e Edition

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  • Originally posted by Story Letter View Post
    Guys the rules are simple:
    ''When a character hits a breaking point towards Spirit, he subtracts one die from the roll for each point of Harmony below 5. If the roll fails, he loses a point of Harmony. When he
    hits a breaking point towards Flesh, he gets a penalty for each point of Harmony above 5. If the roll is a failure, the character gains a point of Harmony.''
    Yes. The problem is that a literal reading will make anyone with 4+ Harmony always have 4 filled dots of Harmony below 5 ranging from 1 to 4. Fortunately this misconception has been explained and cleared now.


    Bloodline: The Stygians
    Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
    Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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    • Quick question. It's awkward, but I'll ask it here:

      Is anyone aware of powers among werewolves or other splats that would force a shapeshifter (default assumption: werewolf) to return to base human form? Essentially in most useful application, to knock him out of Gauru by forcing a change.

      There were a variety of such powers scattered around WoD lines, but I've not spotted any in CofD yet.

      Thanks,
      --Khanwulf

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      • In first edition the Wolfslayer Gift set had Return to Birth which changed a werewolf back to human. In first the Horn of Munin and Waters of Songkran fetishes (the latter would be more of a talen in second edition). In second, the Garmir have Flense Shape. There's also a variety of 'command' powers, like Lay Low the Challenger or Dominate, that would probably help for this.

        Just as an addition, first edition werewolf was pretty insular, and did not really have abilities that targeted things outside the lines. So most targets would be Uratha, mortals, spirits, and occasionally ghosts. I don't think there are werewolf powers called out to affect other shapeshifters, like those from Changing Breeds, Skinchangers, or War Against the Pure, or shapeshifters among other gamelines. Second edition has expanded on it a little, but not nearly as much as other lines.
        Last edited by nofather; 02-06-2018, 12:40 PM.

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        • A demon using the Wave Function Collapse Embed from Flowers of Hell couldn't collapse a werewolf from Gauru back to Hishu, but could prevent a werewolf who is not yet in Gauru from being able to shift into it.

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          • Thanks nofather that's a useful place for my understanding to start. It seems as though there is precedent for such abilities (whether in item form or no), which means that if homebrew 2e is needed a benchmark on power/expense exists. I'm also going to assume that anything forcing a werewolf change would key of spiritual energies as much as "shape flesh"--to use very imprecise language.

            Stupid Loserman the very fact Demon has a power with that name is almost enough to make me look at the game. (Sadly, spy stories have never been my thing.) Noted however is the "prevent shapeshift" benchmark. Thanks!

            --Khanwulf

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            • To add to those, the Elodoth werewolf auspice ability Darkness Into Light can force a Death Raging werewolf out of it, which would make them fall back to human form and be stunned for a round. Since they can only go Gauru once per scene voluntarily, that would prevent that at least. Can shift to other forms still, so....

              For my game sort-of off screen I had this medical research company facility that was run by a spirit-ridden/claimed person do some experiments on werewolves that were using some sort of cocktail of drugs and weird spirit "things" to have their werewolf guinea-pig be unable to control their change, forcing them to either stay human or go into gauru death rage for their demonstrations/experiments. Didn't really have any support in the rules for that but since it didn't happen to a player character, it was OK in my mind to use some BS storyteller reason.

              It's OK if I have my imaginary characters torture another of my imaginary characters. Some not-GM people might think it's strange to stay up at night and think of all the ways imaginary creatures are torturing others, even if no one will ever know of what happened.
              Last edited by Cainite; 02-07-2018, 01:19 AM.

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              • Do Spirits roll two attributes for perception? Finesse+Resistance? That would mean a Rank 3 spirit would be hard to ambush, Rank 4 almost impossible.

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                • Originally posted by Cainite View Post
                  Do Spirits roll two attributes for perception? Finesse+Resistance? That would mean a Rank 3 spirit would be hard to ambush, Rank 4 almost impossible.
                  Yes.

                  P184, 'Attribute + Attribute for actions like surprise and perception.' Finesse from Wits, Resistance from Composure.

                  They sense things, any eyes they have are inconsequential, at least for perceiving things.

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                  • You can easily incorporate disadvantages in such rolls as forms of bans.

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                    • Thanks nofather for the reply, I recalled reading that but could not seem to find it for some reason.

                      Originally posted by Malus View Post
                      You can easily incorporate disadvantages in such rolls as forms of bans.

                      Yeah, that did occur to me. My players are wanting to do some sort of assault on a Pure held territory (one the Pure took from them months ago) and I was thinking they most likely have some Spirits watching the place. Was thinking of some observation spirits that maybe have a ban that they can't see those that are themselves unable to see. Maybe the players have to blind themselves (stab out their eyes) or something gnarly like that if they want to move past them without notice.

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                      • Or a specific time or phenomena makes their perception an automatic failure.

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                        • Rage Gift: Berserker's Might (Glory facet): Reflexive "...can be used once per turn when in Dalu, Gauru or Urshul.... may immediately heal a single Tilt that is a physical injury such as Arm Wrack, Blind, or Leg Wrack...."

                          Does that mean it would heal any of the damage that caused the tilt, since it says heal, or does it mean that it just removes the tilt without touching the health damage you have? I'm assuming the latter. Also, if you had Leg Wrack in both legs, it would heal only one of them, right?

                          How would this work in narration if someone uses let's say Crimson Falx fetish to chop that leg clean off, if it doesn't heal the damage? What about a tilt caused aggravated damage? Maybe someone uses that gift to heal a chopped of leg 5 turns later, the leg just magically reappears, or reattaches regardless of the distance?

                          The Rahu Auspice benefit Tenacious to me seems like you just ignore the fact that you have no legs for example and launch yourself at your foe by just pure grit, since it ignores the tilt for just 2 turns. But this gift heals the tilt completely.

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                          • With the Crimson Falx specifically, I'd just argue that it shouldn't work, personally. Unless your Glory is enough to prevent the damage entirely.

                            But if you think it should, and since it clearly doesn't heal the damage, if you just choose to remove the tilt specifically, I would assume that the facet just prevents the leg from being cut off. For the sake of convenience, I would ask that it be used reflexively, and the leg just hangs on, injured but usable.

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                            • Yes, while technically the Tilt you would use for Crimson Falx is Leg Wrack, more realistically you would want a Leg Gone Condition. Same penalties, limited resolution.

                              I believe the ability (Berserker's Might) just removes the Tilt, does not touch the damage.
                              Last edited by nofather; 02-12-2018, 03:59 AM.

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                              • Originally posted by nofather View Post
                                Yes, while technically the Tilt you would use for Crimson Falx is Leg Wrack, more realistically you would want a Leg Gone Condition. Same penalties, limited resolution.

                                I believe the ability (Berserker's Might) just removes the Tilt, does not touch the damage.
                                I can't reconcile in my head that the Crimson Falx is not said to deal aggravated damage, but still removes a limb completely. Permanent damage in a non-supernatural is reflected with aggravated damage, so removing a limb should have at least 1 agg damage associated with it.

                                With werewolves, lethal heals so fast that it seems comical to me that you remove a limb completely and a new one sprouts before your next turn if in Gauru. I think I might personally rule that it does cause at least 1 aggravated, unless for example as a werewolf you spend an action to hold the neatly severed limb to the stump, then it would be lethal and you can heal the Wrack as if it was lethal damage.

                                In my head, regrowing a limb completely as a Werewolf should be more akin to how Deadpool does it in the movie, and not like Piccolo in Dragonball Z.

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