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Ask a simple question, get a simple answer: Werewolf 2e Edition

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  • It would seem, then, that Hishu is a "lowest energy state" for beings that (in core 2e game line, anyway) originate solely from human stock.

    Question:

    1. Is healing in forms other than Garou reflexive if the wound causes unconsciousness? If so, would the werewolf regain consciousness immediately and "pop" back into the fight? This question essentially amounts to "is the health track as listed or is it actually health+healing in current form?"

    2. Moon's Grace Merit from The Pack. If a pack without Uratha takes it, and they later add an Uratha to it, can we assume the grace is withdrawn? Obviously sanctity of Merits should apply, but what happens to any Renown, Rites or Gifts learned in the meantime by the pack's wolf-blooded and human members? Similarly, if the pack fails (which is more likely in a group without Uratha), what happens to anything learned under the auspice of Moon's Grace?

    Thanks,

    --Khanwulf

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    • On a similar tack to Khanwulf's #1, does the healing occur at the start or end of the werewolf's turn? It matters for wound penalties.

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      • Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post
        1. Is healing in forms other than Garou reflexive if the wound causes unconsciousness? If so, would the werewolf regain consciousness immediately and "pop" back into the fight? This question essentially amounts to "is the health track as listed or is it actually health+healing in current form?"
        The Bashing is natural, happens anyways, so yes, you can potentially wake up. You need to be conscious to spend Essence, to up that to Lethal healing, though, as talked about here.

        2. Moon's Grace Merit from The Pack. If a pack without Uratha takes it, and they later add an Uratha to it, can we assume the grace is withdrawn? Obviously sanctity of Merits should apply, but what happens to any Renown, Rites or Gifts learned in the meantime by the pack's wolf-blooded and human members? Similarly, if the pack fails (which is more likely in a group without Uratha), what happens to anything learned under the auspice of Moon's Grace?
        I think the purpose of the Merit is to make mortal games mortal+ games, so it doesn't seem like the kind of thing that should occur. Everything can boil down to sanctity of Merits but you might let them keep some bonuses, unless you're changing the entire thrust of the game.

        Terrorforge They heal at the start of the turn.

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        • Originally posted by nofather View Post

          The Bashing is natural, happens anyways, so yes, you can potentially wake up. You need to be conscious to spend Essence, to up that to Lethal healing, though, as talked about here.

          I think the purpose of the Merit is to make mortal games mortal+ games, so it doesn't seem like the kind of thing that should occur. Everything can boil down to sanctity of Merits but you might let them keep some bonuses, unless you're changing the entire thrust of the game.

          Terrorforge They heal at the start of the turn.

          Thanks for the link, Nofather.

          If your gaggle of wolf-blooded and humans forms an honest-to-Luna pack, and receives Moon's Grace, then you are definitely playing mortal+. Thing is, mortal or mortal+ is an awkward place to balance things if your group rubs shoulders with full-splats--you tend to slip one way or another and end up dead, or full splat. That's a delicious part of the natural tension, or horror, of the situation.

          So in the case of werewolf, said pack might well take in a fresh change and suddenly become mortal+Uratha. Or, most of the pack dies, because reasons. Or, some of the pack goes through the Change, because Luna. So I guess we're in ST-arbitration territory.



          --Khanwulf

          Comment


          • Originally posted by nofather View Post

            The Bashing is natural, happens anyways, so yes, you can potentially wake up. You need to be conscious to spend Essence, to up that to Lethal healing, though, as talked about here.
            Meanwhile I'd argue that death rage isn't a state of consciousness (hence why it's called so) and it can use several reflexive facets. Biologically speaking only, an organism doesn't need a conscious response to preserve itself, it would be a huge evolutionary disadvantage. And the interpretation relies in a reading that disagrees with the formal definition of 'reflexive action'.

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            • In the case of Wolf-Blooded with the Moon-Marked Tell for the full or new moon, what is the character's effective Renown for the purposes of those Hunter's Aspects' Conditions?


              Resident Sanguinary Analyst
              Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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              • Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                In the case of Wolf-Blooded with the Moon-Marked Tell for the full or new moon, what is the character's effective Renown for the purposes of those Hunter's Aspects' Conditions?
                I'd swing between 0 or 1 when mechanics calls for traits the character lacks, but this time it actually has the same effect for both Conditions. If you don't get at least 1 success when rolling for Swaggering you've failed the roll regardless of target number, and Unaware has a minimum penalty of -1 that only increases by having Cunning 3+.
                Last edited by Tessie; 05-14-2018, 11:28 AM.


                Bloodline: The Stygians
                Ordo Dracul Mystery: Coil of Smoke
                Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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                • Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                  In the case of Wolf-Blooded with the Moon-Marked Tell for the full or new moon, what is the character's effective Renown for the purposes of those Hunter's Aspects' Conditions?
                  I default the penalty and number of success needed to shake Swaggering off to 2, with both of them, mind that doesn't actually gives them a renown trait (barring the specific pack merit).

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                  • Originally posted by Malus View Post
                    I default the penalty and number of success needed to shake Swaggering off to 2, with both of them, mind that doesn't actually gives them a renown trait (barring the specific pack merit).
                    Why -2 and target number 2? If a Tell uses an otherwise werewolf exclusive mechanic, wouldn't it make more sense if the Wolf-Blooded gets the minimum a werewolf could get? (Except in cases where the mechanic is dependent on a trait that both WBs and werewolves share, which still gives them equal opportunity to increase that trait.) And why would different Auspice marks gain the effects of different Renown ratings? Target number 2 on Swaggering would be the result of Purity 2 while -2 on Unaware would be the result of Cunning 3 if werewolves were to apply those hunter's aspect Conditions.


                    Bloodline: The Stygians
                    Ordo Dracul Mystery: Coil of Smoke
                    Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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                    • Originally posted by Tessie View Post

                      Why -2 and target number 2? If a Tell uses an otherwise werewolf exclusive mechanic, wouldn't it make more sense if the Wolf-Blooded gets the minimum a werewolf could get? (Except in cases where the mechanic is dependent on a trait that both WBs and werewolves share, which still gives them equal opportunity to increase that trait.) And why would different Auspice marks gain the effects of different Renown ratings? Target number 2 on Swaggering would be the result of Purity 2 while -2 on Unaware would be the result of Cunning 3 if werewolves were to apply those hunter's aspect Conditions.
                      Because 2 is an average number, and 1 is too little for a tell, IMO. Not my fault they decided to add weird arithmetics to Renown with condition, nevermind that's the default penalty for them.

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                      • How would the moon taint condition interact with another supernatural, like a Vampire for example?

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                        • Originally posted by Heroofthemists View Post
                          How would the moon taint condition interact with another supernatural, like a Vampire for example?
                          I'd probably keep it the same. It's not as if it's a mundane poison, it's flesh-warping. But if someone was really squirmy over it I don't see any problem lowering the damage to Bashing or something.

                          Though currently the only RAW way to get it is through Maw of Madness, which specifically requires a living target. You could easily have a lune-fetish tooth or something that allows one to strike the undead with it.

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                          • Is there Word of God on whether or not the "either" in the rules for Totem is exclusive or inclusive.

                            I see a lot of people read the rule the same way I do, that you can buy a dot of the merit to represent either a level of connection to your personal totem or your pack totem. But the wording is ambiguous. Have any of the authors commented on which it is meant to say or whether the ambiguity is intentional.

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                            • Idigam / Influence related questions:

                              Last play session ended mid-combat. The players and their allies are facing the Idigam Gagh-Azur for the first time. Situation is dire.
                              Gagh-Azur has Influence 5 in Hunger. It uses that full Influence on a group of PC's in a combat situation. What happens?

                              Initially I was thinking that I would have 5 players/characters that have their Essence down to 4 or less (which is 4/5 of them) make a resistance roll and if they have less successes than the Idigam did (pretty likely, since Resolve+PU vs 24 activation), they would be forced to take a bite out of the closest person to them and eat their flesh for Essence, causing Aggravated damage. And continue to try to eat them until they have at least half their pool of Essence (that would be 6).

                              At this point the PC's are trying to run away and survive another day, but several of them are currently under the effects of Awe for 2 more turns (can't move or speak).The Idigam is also going to open a Shadow Gateway to send a host of spirits at the players and their allies.

                              Is this at all reasonable? Am I being way too forgiving or is this not enough for Influence 5? The rules for Influence are so vague, I have no clue on how much they should remove player Agency. At this point the situation is pretty dire and I have a feeling that a delay of a turn or two is going to cost at least some of the player characters their lives. If they get left behind, they will be swarmed by a number of spirits and/or be devoured by the Idigam.

                              Now, if it was the Players using Influence 5 Hunger, I would probably have the targets go berserk and eat each other, but mind controlling powers against PC's cause me to hesitate. I don't want to cause a situation where several of them die without being able to save themselves and not have "the rules" supporting their deaths.

                              Any advice would be appreciated.
                              Last edited by Cainite; Yesterday, 02:22 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Cainite View Post
                                Idigam / Influence related questions:

                                Last play session ended mid-combat. The players and their allies are facing the Idigam Gagh-Azur for the first time. Situation is dire.
                                Gagh-Azur has Influence 5 in Hunger. It uses that full Influence on a group of PC's in a combat situation. What happens?

                                Initially I was thinking that I would have 5 players/characters that have their Essence down to 4 or less (which is 4/5 of them) make a resistance roll and if they have less successes than the Idigam did (pretty likely, since Resolve+PU vs 24 activation), they would be forced to take a bite out of the closest person to them and eat their flesh for Essence, causing Aggravated damage. And continue to try to eat them until they have at least half their pool of Essence (that would be 6).

                                At this point the PC's are trying to run away and survive another day, but several of them are currently under the effects of Awe for 2 more turns (can't move or speak).The Idigam is also going to open a Shadow Gateway to send a host of spirits at the players and their allies.

                                Is this at all reasonable? Am I being way too forgiving or is this not enough for Influence 5? The rules for Influence are so vague, I have no clue on how much they should remove player Agency. At this point the situation is pretty dire and I have a feeling that a delay of a turn or two is going to cost at least some of the player characters their lives. If they get left behind, they will be swarmed by a number of spirits and/or be devoured by the Idigam.

                                Now, if it was the Players using Influence 5 Hunger, I would probably have the targets go berserk and eat each other, but mind controlling powers against PC's cause me to hesitate. I don't want to cause a situation where several of them die without being able to save themselves and not have "the rules" supporting their deaths.

                                Any advice would be appreciated.
                                Seeing as it is an Idigam, an easy solution would be Mass Create of Hunger Spirits to tie up the characters. Otherwise, I'd restrict that kind of "Ravenous Curse" (see Persistent Condition) to a single target (Permanent Create for the Influence). You could do a mass stoking of the PCs' hunger via Manipulate or Control, but if they escape (and it sounds like you want them to), long term consequences seem to have a better payoff (such as Hunger Spirits Fettering or Possessing people, or a long-term curse to saddle a character with).

                                EDIT: For the mechanics of the Condition, maybe it gives them additional Kuruth Triggers (with the behavior during Death Rage being what you have in mind above).
                                Last edited by Vent0; Yesterday, 04:18 PM.


                                Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
                                Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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