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Ask a simple question, get a simple answer: Werewolf 2e Edition

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  • Originally posted by Shadowdragon View Post
    The Madness Condition uses Integrity, but what happens if it's used on something that doesn't have Integrity, like a werewolf? Does it just not work?
    It has to work at least sometimes, because the Dement Numina says that it can be resisted with Composure + Primal Urge and it can be inflicted by an idigam on werewolves using Forge Empty Wolf. So it seems like only relatively powerful magic can do that to something other than normal human in the first place (and Dement only works for a scene).

    Still, I think it's reasonable enough for it to substitute Harmony for werewolves, both in the interests of letting the mechanics function and following a logic in which being a lot closer to the Spirit side creates quirks in behaviour that at least resemble the mental disruption that humans experience, which powers that impose the Condition can capitalise upon.


    I have approximate knowledge of many things.
    Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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    • Originally posted by Shadowdragon View Post
      The Madness Condition uses Integrity, but what happens if it's used on something that doesn't have Integrity, like a werewolf? Does it just not work? Do you use Harmony instead?
      It's weird. There's five sources of the Madness Condition in WtF 2e core. Three are only applicable to humans and one is applicable on everyone* but the last one, Forge Empty Wolf, is specifically only applicable on werewolves. It's quite the oversight that the Madness Condition doesn't actually reflect this.

      In Mage, however, it's specified that mages just substitute Wisdom for Integrity. Changeling also handles it the same way by using current Clarity while Deviant uses (Resolve + Acclimation) since Acclimation starts at 0 and that'd be really bad for deviants.
      I'd recommend just using Harmony in Werewolf. Isator Levi makes a good point about spirit-like behaviour.

      *Fun fact: The Dement Numen, which can apply the Madness Condition on everyone, can also be found in GMC/DtD, CofD, MtA 2e, BtP, CtL 2e and PtC 2e. But in all those books it instead applies the Insane Tilt which doesn't use Integrity or equivalent traits. But for some reason Werewolf does not include the Insane Tilt so I guess they had to change Dement to reflect this but forgetting to change Madness.


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      • I must admit, I've always wondered about some applications of the Create and Mass Create functions of Influence. Suppose it's a spirit with Influence Mountain or Building, would you be creating a structure in the Shadow akin to unawakened reflections? If used in the material world, would you think it can only ever cause these things to spring up in complete form out of nowhere, or could it be valid to define an end result that circumstances then work to bring about naturally?

        On the other side, if a high Rank wolf spirit Creates wolves in the Shadow, are they going to be running around same as if an animal stumbled through a Verge until the power ends or... they starve?


        I have approximate knowledge of many things.
        Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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        • Is there a way for wolf-blooded to identify uratha without straight up seeing something werewolf-y happen and recognizing that?

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          • Originally posted by KatiePlays View Post
            Is there a way for wolf-blooded to identify uratha without straight up seeing something werewolf-y happen and recognizing that?
            Nothing by default, nope.

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            • Originally posted by Vintervalpen View Post

              Nothing by default, nope.
              Ok, thanks for confirming!

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              • Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                I must admit, I've always wondered about some applications of the Create and Mass Create functions of Influence. Suppose it's a spirit with Influence Mountain or Building, would you be creating a structure in the Shadow akin to unawakened reflections? If used in the material world, would you think it can only ever cause these things to spring up in complete form out of nowhere, or could it be valid to define an end result that circumstances then work to bring about naturally?

                On the other side, if a high Rank wolf spirit Creates wolves in the Shadow, are they going to be running around same as if an animal stumbled through a Verge until the power ends or... they starve?
                No idea on how it’s supposed to work by RAW, but I’d rule it so that using Create Influence to naturally make things over a long period, part-by-part, is just... done, without even spending Essence. The spirit wills, and the world resonates. This would mean that spending Essence to Create (as the normal mechanics) results in ‘whole’ but only temporary creations.


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                • I'm wondering how fo you handle Rituals during combat? I know the book gives a -2 because of the distraction, but is the time handled different in those ocassions, I mean each turn is like a couple of seconds (in 1ed it was 3 seconds each turn iirc) and some of the rites could last hours...so I'm kind of wondering what happened there and how do you handle it?

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                  • Does a spirit inside a Claimed host dies when the host dies? Or he merely hibernate?


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                    • Originally posted by Horodrigo View Post
                      Does a spirit inside a Claimed host dies when the host dies? Or he merely hibernate?
                      They're expelled but still active.


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                      • Originally posted by Aeveth View Post
                        I'm wondering how fo you handle Rituals during combat? I know the book gives a -2 because of the distraction, but is the time handled different in those ocassions, I mean each turn is like a couple of seconds (in 1ed it was 3 seconds each turn iirc) and some of the rites could last hours...so I'm kind of wondering what happened there and how do you handle it?
                        I think the intention is that Rituals can't be cast during combat - they simply take too long to cast and most combats are over within 1 minute of real time (a turn is still supposed to be about 3 seconds per page 162).

                        Originally posted by Horodrigo View Post
                        Does a spirit inside a Claimed host dies when the host dies? Or he merely hibernate?
                        I feel like this should permanently kill the Spirit, but since that doesn't seem to be stated anywhere I'm guessing the intent is that they become dormant as long as they have any essence left. If this is the intent, then I would probably allow Werewolves to kill the Spirit permanently if it is the target of the Siskur-Dah using the normal rules for splitting its essence.

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                        • If you kill a Claimed, the spirit is ejected and 'disoriented' in Twilight, but likely safe unless you did enough damage to bring it to Discorporation, in which case it reforms in another place. In Shunned by the Moon, Jeremiah's spirit is given stats and if the PCs kill him it will stick around and fight. Though it's likely lost most of the Manifestations letting it stay here (if it died in the flesh world).

                          And rites aren't made to be used in combat, aside from the relatively long lengths they can take, as it says on p140, 'If the performance of a rite breaks at any point — such as a participant being attacked and injured — a dramatic failure ensues.'
                          Last edited by nofather; 05-02-2021, 10:20 PM.

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                          • What are the key means for identifying someone as urged? Claimed?

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                            • Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post
                              What are the key means for identifying someone as urged? Claimed?
                              Scent the Unnatural (Gift of Insight, Purity Facet) can identify Ridden within 10 yards per dot of Purity, and characters benefiting from the Siskur-Dah Condition granted by a Storm Lord ritemaster can clearly perceive if their prey is possessed, Urged, or Claimed.

                              Otherwise, inference from behavior, physical changes (if any), and normal detective work (i.e. "A spirit went missing recently and that guy seems to be acting funny.")


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                              • A big one for Urged is just looking. Spirits inflict the Urged Condition by using Fetter which sort of anchors them in Twilight to the target. Werewolves see spirits in Twilight as if they are Manifested, so they could see a spirit looming over someone clear as day. The spirit could try to hide, apparently inside the Fettered is a good spot, but werewolves do have senses that could find them if they search, in addition to what Satchel pointed out.

                                Claimed often become monstrous in appearance, which can be an indicator, but that's not exactly uncommon in the world of Chronicles. I think changes are less apparent if the spirit is more human related, as well, like an obsession spirit born of a humans passions.

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