So, do Second Edition Uratha have any option for vertical advancement other than their Auspice Gifts and general Primal Urge?
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Originally posted by Isator Levi View PostSo, do Second Edition Uratha have any option for vertical advancement other than their Auspice Gifts and general Primal Urge?
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Originally posted by espritdecalmar View Post
Renown kind of works like this, since every dot grants you a new Gift Facet as well as increasing various dice pools and supernatural power factors.
That's really only giving some extra heft to powers that the character already has. I'm thinking more about something that indicates options that would not have been available at a less mature stage of power.
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Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
That's really only giving some extra heft to powers that the character already has. I'm thinking more about something that indicates options that would not have been available at a less mature stage of power.
The only things I can think of that are restricted at character creation would be the Favored Form merit and the Moon Gifts. The only published Moon Gifts are the 5 in the core, but the book makes it clear that there could be more and that a Werewolf could have more than one. An alternate Cahalith Moon Gift was published on the blog during open development, which I have linked below. Acrozatarim has published others on his Patreon.
The Giver of Gifts: 1 [Werewolf: The Forsaken] – Onyx Path Publishing (theonyxpath.com)
There is also the Gift of the Elementals. Each Facet of that Gift (except Glory) gets much more powerful as your Renown increases since it increases your dots of influence over the relevant element.
While it's not exactly what you were asking for, I could see a 4 or 5 dot Fetish as something an experienced, powerful Werewolf could seek out that would not be available to a weaker wolf. Binding a 5-dot Spirit is no mean feat, and while I think the examples in the Core book are generally very lacklustre, the examples listed for what a 4 or 5 dot fetish could do are extremely powerful.
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It makes sense enough as their intended design model, just does end up feeling a bit of a pity that there isn't quite something to signify the more experienced werewolf the way one might get with vampires developing an arsenal of custom Devotions or Mastery for mages.
Although I wonder about Gifts... I have a sense from some places that there's an idea of Gift varieties that have significant power and are obscure to Uratha at large, which might come with a qualifier that you'd need to be a big deal in the first place to get the spirits able to imprint them to recognise you. Is there anything to that?
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Originally posted by Isator Levi View PostAlthough I wonder about Gifts... I have a sense from some places that there's an idea of Gift varieties that have significant power and are obscure to Uratha at large, which might come with a qualifier that you'd need to be a big deal in the first place to get the spirits able to imprint them to recognise you. Is there anything to that?
Originally posted by Isator Levi View PostIt makes sense enough as their intended design model, just does end up feeling a bit of a pity that there isn't quite something to signify the more experienced werewolf the way one might get with vampires developing an arsenal of custom Devotions or Mastery for mages.
It's also the case that Werewolves have a tendency to get stronger as a pack as much as they do as individuals, whereas a Vampire's power is all individual. Several Gift Facets synergise extremely well together - for example there are several Gifts that penalise the opponent's initiative. If one of the Pack members has Pack Triumphs Together (the Honor Facet from the Gift of Inspiration) they can double down on this advantage and make it so that the entire pack gets the drop on their prey. If another pack member has Gift of the Screaming Moon from the blog post, or if there is an Irrakka present, these advantages are compounded even further.
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Werewolf hasn't really gotten an 'end game' book. There's hints throughout second edition about the 'Bodhisattva predator' werewolf, who seems to be the equivalent of the...well, they don't really have big differences anymore, but about as big a difference from werewolves as werewolves are to hunters (from the Vigil). There are hints of their capabilities in the Devourer template, and some ideas that may indicate some direction they would go in in threads like the following:
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...nleashed/page6
Where Lycaon-Ur, a werewolf lodge totem from the core book manages to always maintain 5 Harmony.
But as said, they haven't gotten an 'end game' book like Thousand Years of Night or Imperial Mysteries.
That said, while a werewolf at Primal Urge 1 and one at Primal Urge 10 may have access to some of the same powers (like those in the core) the gap in power tends to be pretty large. You are capable of tracking much easier, regenerating quickly and casually (to the point one doesn't really need to go into gauru to get a 'full heal'). And a lot of that journey to become like Father Wolf is going to get you picking up fetishes and obscure rites or gifts or just weird abilities, like Lycaon-Ur's ability to not be erased from existence and, if he dies, come back.Last edited by nofather; 07-07-2021, 11:19 PM.
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Originally posted by Sith_Happens View PostIf you ask me “Bodhisattva predators” are pretty clearly implied to be the werewolf equivalent of archmages.
We've heard some basic ideas about what some writers would like out of it but at the very least I think if we ever did end up getting them described they would be suitably different from archmages. Maybe more of a force within the world, but scaled up to deal with larger concepts. Impossible to really say until it's there though.
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I think there's an obvious unfulfilled design space between basic playable splats and evolved non-playable splats, where you advance the template but not to the point where you're no longer playing the same game. Bodhisattva predators are, at least to me, by far the most suitable candidates for that due to a couple of reasons (besides the fact that maybe only one or two of the other games would be suitable for a similar concept): They are already established as an "evolved splat" within the setting, they still play on the same field as their former peers (as opposed to the Ascension War of archmages), and as established in this thread regular werewolves has a lack of vertical advancement, meaning vertically grown Bodhisattva predators would stand out (as they're supposed to do) with relatively small changes which would be much easier to balance within the context of the base game.
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Originally posted by nofather View Post
While mechanically it does seem like it would be in a similar position, that of a sub-template, since archmages aren't really mages anymore, the comparison would be ironic because a Bodhisattva is literally someone who stays behind on the Earth to save others even though they can 'ascend' while archmages have basically said byebye to the Fallen World and run off to become symbols.
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Originally posted by 21C Hermit View PostDid we have a Gift, Rite, Fetish, or some other power to ‘form-lock’ a werewolf into Hishu, Urhan, or any other form?
It might be interesting to play with something like that as a side-effect of an otherwise useful rite though. I'm always looking for balanced ways to give Werewolves access to agg healing, and being form-locked into Urhan for one night per point of agg healed could be interesting.
Edit: It's also worth considering that the ease of changing forms or remaining in your current form is one of the ways Werewolf penalises your Harmony being out of balance. If you create a power that locks a Werewolf in one form it interferes with that, and low Harmony Werewolves might even see being locked in one form for a period as a good thing.Last edited by Aurumae; 10-31-2021, 12:02 PM.
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Originally posted by Aurumae View Post
No, and it's unlikely that we'd see something like that published. Forcibly taking away one of a splat's core abilities is something not even high Arcana Mages can do.
It might be interesting to play with something like that as a side-effect of an otherwise useful rite though. I'm always looking for balanced ways to give Werewolves access to agg healing, and being form-locked into Urhan for one night per point of agg healed could be interesting.
Edit: It's also worth considering that the ease of changing forms or remaining in your current form is one of the ways Werewolf penalises your Harmony being out of balance. If you create a power that locks a Werewolf in one form it interferes with that, and low Harmony Werewolves might even see being locked in one form for a period as a good thing.
Originally posted by Neos01 View Post
The Demon Embed, Wave function collapse, can do something akin to this
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