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  • "Unlocking a Shadow Gift costs 5 Experiences, or 3 if it is favored by auspice or tribe. Once it is acquired, the Uratha gains a single Facet within that Gift immediately."
    Page 115

    Since it's impossible to unlock Shadow Gifts without having Facets in them it stands to reason that Gifts without Facets are locked.


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    • It's not actually stated anywhere. It's just that it not working that way would be unspeakably stupid.

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      • Originally posted by Tessie View Post
        "Unlocking a Shadow Gift costs 5 Experiences, or 3 if it is favored by auspice or tribe. Once it is acquired, the Uratha gains a single Facet within that Gift immediately."
        Page 115

        Since it's impossible to unlock Shadow Gifts without having Facets in them it stands to reason that Gifts without Facets are locked.
        That makes logical sense, and gives me a page number to work with. Thank you, that helps a great deal!

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        • In character creation, mechanically if you are the type who worries about something possibly costing more Experiences later in the game, you would benefit from picking facets from two different Gifts.

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          • Originally posted by nofather View Post
            In character creation, mechanically if you are the type who worries about something possibly costing more Experiences later in the game, you would benefit from picking facets from two different Gifts.
            I don't think you have a choice. In two different places it specifies "a facet of two shadow gifts" (pg83), and 'choose one facet each of two shadow gifts" (pg84).

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            • Can Werewolves damage Strix with their teeth when Strix are in their natural form which shrugs off almost all damage?

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              • Hard to say. The predator's bane usually goes through effects that lower damage. So if I'm a tough guy who reduces Lethal to Bashing, it still does Lethal. But for the strix, they don't really get injured without special powers.

                'Injury is an extremely rare sensation for a Strix. They are completely immune to all physical and ephemeral attacks except for Disciplines and Devotions that inflict aggravated damage, which inflict Bashing wounds on them instead. Some banes inflict injury as well, notably sunlight and fire if the Strix is unable to escape.'

                Just based on the wording, I'd say no, but I imagine there would be a variety of alternative methods that would allow for it. Darkness Gifts, special fetishes, and so forth. Obviously you could use Tongue of Flame against them, and wolves of the Temple of Apollo sometimes emit light from their eyes and mouth, 'capturing' one in your mouth while that's active would probably count for capturing it within inescapable light.

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                • Originally posted by nofather View Post
                  Hard to say. The predator's bane usually goes through effects that lower damage. So if I'm a tough guy who reduces Lethal to Bashing, it still does Lethal.
                  That isn't what the sidebar says...


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                  • Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
                    That isn't what the sidebar says...
                    Okay lets see what it says. 'Uratha bite to kill. Their teeth carry the deadly resonance of Father Wolf, the ultimate hunter. As such, their bites in every form count as mystical sources to foes that are vulnerable to such sources. Even in Hishu, a werewolf’s bite causes lethal damage to vampires.'

                    Still, they aren't inflicting Aggravated damage, which is the only way to do damage to the strix outside of banes.

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                    • Their bites count as mystical sources. They're the scions of the embodiment of the hunt. They should be able to damage Strix through biting.


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                      WoD | Changing Breeds, Umbra, Book of the Wyrm, Shattered Dreams CofD | Werewolf: The Forsaken 2nd ed, Idigam Anthology, The Pack, Demon Storyteller's Guide, Hurt Locker, Dark Eras Companion, Beast Player's Guide, Deviant: The Renegades
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                      • Alright, word of writer for the win. I'm still stuck in the 'toning down werewolf for other games' mindset, which sucks.

                        I don't suppose there's any news on the book front?

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                        • Yeah, intent from writing was that werewolves are the inheritors of the greatest predator ever. If they're hunting you, be worried.

                          Now, that doesn't mean instant win or anything. They may end up doing the minimum damage against a particular foe. (The ST will have to exercise some judgement.) But their teeth will let them inflict some damage.

                          Re: books, I've heard nothing, sorry.


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                          WoD | Changing Breeds, Umbra, Book of the Wyrm, Shattered Dreams CofD | Werewolf: The Forsaken 2nd ed, Idigam Anthology, The Pack, Demon Storyteller's Guide, Hurt Locker, Dark Eras Companion, Beast Player's Guide, Deviant: The Renegades
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                          • Anyone know if there's any word on if you can have both a personal AND pack totem?


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                            • I think considering it's an option given in the core and doesn't mention anything about not having a pack totem because of it, it's doable. I'd suggest using the Mentor Merit, as a personal totem doesn't seem be a sidekick, which would be more appropriate with a Retainer Merit.
                              Last edited by nofather; 01-25-2017, 08:22 PM.

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                              • Originally posted by falco1029 View Post
                                Anyone know if there's any word on if you can have both a personal AND pack totem?
                                It's allowable, and already covered by the Totem merit (p. 108) - Your character has a relationship to a totem spirit, either personally or to a pack totem.

                                Purchase it separately from your pack totem - yes, this does mean that the personal totem is likely to be significantly weaker than the pack totem, but this is generally how it should be in the hierarchy of spirits and totems. A pack totem is okay with its pack having smaller personal totems, just like a lodge totem is okay with members having smaller pack totems (and/or personal totems), and tribal totems (aka Firstborn) are okay with lodges, packs and Uratha having lesser totems.

                                As long as every spirit knows its place, everyone is happy.

                                That said, you could certainly have scenarios (and tell stories) where the personal totem is more powerful than the pack totem. This will cause friction, and be a flashpoint for drama. Run with it and play it out, just expect that the pack will be pulling double-time on massaging its ego while the more powerful personal totem sits smugly and preens its little favourite werewolf.

                                Edit to add: Don't forget that the more powerful a totem, the more (and greater) demands it's going to place on the werewolf for its patronage. Spirits, including totems, cannot cannot cannot give anything away for free. Their existence is transactional and they have to be paid/bribed/coerced/rendered favours etc if you want something from them. As covered in The Pack, the totem bond already gives them quite a bit, so you've got a reasonable amount of 'currency' banked with a totem because of the merit dots*, but bigger will ask for more - after all, they could be enjoying the services of a whole pack, why settle for just you?

                                * Which is why I suggest using the Totem merit for a personal totem rather than Mentor or Retainer.
                                Last edited by Bunyip; 01-25-2017, 09:42 PM.


                                Writes stuff. Sometimes you like it.
                                WoD | Changing Breeds, Umbra, Book of the Wyrm, Shattered Dreams CofD | Werewolf: The Forsaken 2nd ed, Idigam Anthology, The Pack, Demon Storyteller's Guide, Hurt Locker, Dark Eras Companion, Beast Player's Guide, Deviant: The Renegades
                                The Trinity Continuum | Æon

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