Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Ask a simple question, get a simple answer: Werewolf 2e Edition

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Wow I need to read this book better. Otherwise, yeah, what Bunyip said.

    Comment


    • Alright, cool, thanks!


      My CofD Homebrew

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Bunyip View Post
        Their bites count as mystical sources. They're the scions of the embodiment of the hunt. They should be able to damage Strix through biting.
        Interesting. That's definitely not the impression I got from the sidebar. Saying, "their bites in every form count as mystical sources to foes that are vulnerable to such sources" sounds like something that would only matter against foes that are explicitly vulnerable to mystical sources of damage, which the Strix are not.


        Onyx Path Forum Moderator

        My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.

        Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

        Comment


        • (Dammit, I had a longer, more eloquent response but computer crash ate it.)

          Vampire p. 202 - 'Some magic, though, including potent Crúac rites, the most devastating Disciplines and some banes can rend the shadows and actually injure a Strix'.

          Strix explicitly are vulnerable to 'some' mystical sources. Werewolf teeth count as those mystical sources. They can bite Strix.



          Writes stuff. Sometimes you like it. WoD | Changing Breeds, Umbra, Book of the Wyrm, Shattered Dreams CofD | Werewolf: The Forsaken 2nd ed, Idigam Anthology, The Pack, Demon Storyteller's Guide, Hurt Locker, Dark Eras Companion, Beast Player's Guide, Deviant: The Renegades, Night Horrors: Shunned by the Moon | The Trinity Continuum Æon, Æon Æxpansion, Aberrant

          Comment


          • They are completely immune to all physical and ephemeral attacks except for Disciplines and Devotions that inflict aggravated damage, which inflict Bashing wounds on them instead
            Strix don't have any kind of resistance to any supernatural forms of damage except for Disciplines and Devotions as far as I can tell.

            Comment


            • ST call. It's sometimes difficult to reconcile how something from one book interacts with something from another book. This is especially true when each core book writes from the point of view of that monster and the things it's likely to face. Vampire (and Strix) were written with Kindred in mind*, not werewolves. Werewolf was written with the 'if it bleeds we can kill it' mentality across the rest of the CofD, but it possibly wasn't phrased as clearly as that in the final product.

              I'm sure many of these questions will be answered in the Crossover Chronicles when they get under way.

              * Meaning Disciplines, Cruac etc, not Gifts, Atavisms, Awakened Magic, Contracts, Exploits etc.


              Writes stuff. Sometimes you like it. WoD | Changing Breeds, Umbra, Book of the Wyrm, Shattered Dreams CofD | Werewolf: The Forsaken 2nd ed, Idigam Anthology, The Pack, Demon Storyteller's Guide, Hurt Locker, Dark Eras Companion, Beast Player's Guide, Deviant: The Renegades, Night Horrors: Shunned by the Moon | The Trinity Continuum Æon, Æon Æxpansion, Aberrant

              Comment


              • Werewolf teeth deal lethal damage to vampires. That is an absolute statement. Doesn't matter if they're in a form that doesn't deal lethal to anything else, doesn't matter if the vampire is an owl made of smoke.

                Werewolf teeth + Vampire = Lethal. At all times. No ifs, no buts.

                Comment


                • Yeah, it's because Vampire was the only other thing out at the time, and we wanted to be clear.


                  Writes stuff. Sometimes you like it. WoD | Changing Breeds, Umbra, Book of the Wyrm, Shattered Dreams CofD | Werewolf: The Forsaken 2nd ed, Idigam Anthology, The Pack, Demon Storyteller's Guide, Hurt Locker, Dark Eras Companion, Beast Player's Guide, Deviant: The Renegades, Night Horrors: Shunned by the Moon | The Trinity Continuum Æon, Æon Æxpansion, Aberrant

                  Comment


                  • I think you're supposed to interpret that if a being has a weakness to a mystical source (not necessarily mystical sources in general) it is also vulnerable to werewolves.


                    Bloodline: The Stygians
                    Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                    Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

                    Comment


                    • I dunno, maybe it's just me being salty about werewolves' bites dealing lethal damage to vampires, but the whole rule seems really strange and inconsistent to me. If they count as a source of whatever mystical vulnerability their prey may have, why do they need high enough Honorary Rank to count as Banes to spirits? Do they count as Banes for ghosts, angels, goetia, and other ephemeral beings? Why don't their bites count as silver against other werewolves without a Rite? Do they count as iron against Changelings and other Fae? Fire against Prometheans? Why do their bites in Hishu deal lethal damage to vampires when lethal damage bites isn't a benefit of the form and vampires don't have any weaknesses that upgrade damage from bashing to lethal? Why don't they count as sunlight?

                      I remember during open development, Stew mentioned when the forms were previewed that the teeth and claws in hybrid forms (Dalu, Gauru, and Urshul), would be considered supernatural sources of damage, and therefore get around vampires' damage resistance. There was a big kerfuffle about that, and eventually someone (I think it might have been David?) said it would be changing to just the teeth, and that it had to do with the symbolism of the predator's jaws. It really looks to me like the rule exists because of a design goal that werewolves should be able to do lethal damage to vampires specifically, and that the specific reasoning being used to justify that is creating weird and inconsistent interactions with various other creatures damage resistances and vulnerabilities.

                      If the intent is that werewolves' bites in any form always do lethal damage, bypassing any supernatural resistances or immunities their prey might have, that would be far more consistent, but that doesn't appear to be what it's saying. And again, Hishu form bites don't normally deal lethal damage in the first place. It seems like a better rule would just be to say that the damage from a werewolf's bite is never reduced by supernatural resistances, and let the type of damage be determined by the form and any Gifts, Rites, or other spirit magic enhancing them.
                      Last edited by Charlaquin; 01-26-2017, 09:03 AM.


                      Onyx Path Forum Moderator

                      My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.

                      Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
                        It seems like a better rule would just be to say that the damage from a werewolf's bite is never reduced by supernatural resistances, and let the type of damage be determined by the form and any Gifts, Rites, or other spirit magic enhancing them.
                        It might not be the intent, but it's how we run things.

                        Re: Inconsistency with how they interact with spirits vs other supernaturals: Keep in mind that they don't do agg to vampires, just lethal. Acting as a bane to spirits does aggravated damage, they only do lethal by default. So that bit is internally consistent (kind of).

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by lnodiv View Post
                          It might not be the intent, but it's how we run things.
                          It's probably how I'll run it too.

                          Originally posted by lnodiv View Post
                          Re: Inconsistency with how they interact with spirits vs other supernaturals: Keep in mind that they don't do agg to vampires, just lethal. Acting as a bane to spirits does aggravated damage, they only do lethal by default. So that bit is internally consistent (kind of).
                          Kind of, except that the justification given is that they count as mystical sources to creatures vulnerable to such sources. If that means that they count as anything their prey is mystically vulnerable to, then they really should do aggravated damage to vampires, because vampires are mystically vulnerable to sunlight and sunlight does aggravated damage to them. In fact, most supernatural vulnerabilities cause aggravated damage to the entities that have them.

                          It really looks to me like the intent was just for werewolves to be able to do lethal damage to vampires, and that it says they count as "mystical sources" to explain why. And if that's the goal, that's fine. Vampires are the only creatures that currently have a damage resistance that explicitly applies only to mundane sources of damage (though arguably Death Mage Armor might work that way too). It's fine if that's what the Predator's Jaws does, it only starts getting weird when you try to apply it to things like Strix with the justification that they can be hurt by some supernatural sources, therefore werewolf teeth count as one of those sources.
                          Last edited by Charlaquin; 01-26-2017, 09:33 AM.


                          Onyx Path Forum Moderator

                          My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.

                          Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

                          Comment


                          • I don't think werewolf teeth are supposed to deal damage as one of those sources. Just that being vulnerable to one type of mystical damage means they also do damage, but unless you're also a Bane due to Honorary Rank or something like that they only deal normal damage.

                            Also, sunlight deals bashing, lethal or aggravated damage to vampires based on Humanity. It's not always aggravated damage.


                            Bloodline: The Stygians
                            Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                            Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Tessie View Post
                              I don't think werewolf teeth are supposed to deal damage as one of those sources. Just that being vulnerable to one type of mystical damage means they also do damage, but unless you're also a Bane due to Honorary Rank or something like that they only deal normal damage.
                              So if a creature has a supernatural weakness, werewolf bites always deal lethal to them? I guess that would give you a consistent ruling, but it feels really awkward to me.

                              Originally posted by Tessie View Post
                              Also, sunlight deals bashing, lethal or aggravated damage to vampires based on Humanity. It's not always aggravated damage.
                              Ok, then go with fire. That's also a supernatural vulnerability vampires have and it does always cause aggravated wounds.


                              Onyx Path Forum Moderator

                              My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.

                              Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

                              Comment


                              • I don't think that's weird at all and seems like the spirit of the rule. I don't think they're supposed to count as banes of anything (except spirit, rank issues), they just count as mystical damage if the creature in question is vulnerable to mystical damages. Like the strix (which are vulnerable to a variety of such damages) and vampires, who are the same. Changelings are just as vulnerable to regular old gunshots as they are to werewolf teeth.

                                If anything, Spirits, the exception to the rule, seems more because developers didn't want werewolf fucking up spirits without some kind of effort put in, as it would vastly uncomplicate their interactions, which are probably the most common interactions in the game beyond perhaps, humans.

                                So it does sound a little like salt.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X