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  • Second Edition Bale Hound Gifts

    Hi guys, for reasons of campaign hilarity Bale Hound are likely to turn up in my Second Edition game at some point. Therefore I'd prefer to give them some mechanical 'teeth' as it were.

    My players, you know who you are - DON'T READ ANY FURTHER. You'll find out soon enough. ;-)

    Anyways, now my players have run for the hills....


    I'm looking to update the Bale Hound Gift lists; Wound, and Tainted Moon (Eclipse Gifts aren't going to be included, in my personal head canon they're somewhere else and not necessarily Bale Hound-only).

    In my notes so far I'm writing up what each facet will do (the mechanics can be relatively easily be made up after knowing what the Gift lists look like).

    As a caveat, I also envisage Bale Hounds making common use out of Insight, Rage, Stealth, and Evasion Gifts.


    I have at the moment:

    Gifts of the Tainted Moon

    Essentially the Tainted Moon takes an 'evil' power appropriately from each of the Auspice, I see it as a common power a new Bale Hound gets (appropriate to their Auspice Renown).

    Cunning - Make the victim blinded and deaf for turns equal to Cunning (duration can be changed)
    Glory - Leech vitality from nearby mortals, for each mortal you get social bonus (of some kind) that is capped by Glory
    Honour - Some kind of Binding Lie, basically in inversion of the Oath side of the Elodoth. The problem being that turning someone to Rage has now been added to other Gifts, and duplication is lazy and boring.
    Purity - Make Death Rage easy, but phenomenally powerful in combat. Capped by Purity, obviously.
    Wisdom - ?? I'm at a loss here. Halp?

    Gifts of the Wound

    These Gifts give our errant Bale Hound a nasty edge within a Wound. They're supposed to be pretty powerful, but they are (mostly) limited to the boundaries of a Wound.

    Cunning - Can appear and reappear in a Wound within Cunning*10 yards (and therefore gaining a flanking advantage)
    Glory - The Bale Hound can inflict the effects of a Wound onto a victim who they've hit for how many turns equal to their Glory.
    Honour - The Bale Wound gets a bonus to Wound spirits equal to their Honour, and count their impression one higher.
    Purity - No longer suffer from the effects of Wounds, and within a Wound, wound penalties become bonuses relating to violence.
    Wisdom - Knowledge where Wounds are, within Wisdom*Miles and what spirits are there. Also gains +2 Defense and Init within these Wound.


    So what do we think? I know the mechanics are pretty none existant at the moment, but your feedback would be entirely welcome!

  • #2
    What if Gift of the Tainted Moon is a Moon Gift instead of a Shadow Gift? Or keep Tainted Moon as-is and make a separate Bale Hound Moon Gift. But something about the idea of a universal Moon Gift that's available to Bale Hounds of any Auspice is really cool.

    Gift of the Wound is awesome. The Purity Facet in particular is just perfect. Honor is a close second favorite. Wisdom does exactly what it needs to do, though I feel like the Defense and Initiative bonus is a bit tacked on. But, on the other hand, it does need some extra oomph, I just wonder if there's a more thematic bonus it could grant.

    Glory I like conceptually, but it seems anti-synergistic with the rest of the Gift because it's only useful when you're not in a Wound (unless it multiplies the Wound's effects if you're already in one, but that's a little math-y for my taste). What would be even better is if it let you make a roll to place the effects of a Wound on an area (maybe a Glory yard radius or something) for a Scene, in the form of an Environmental Tilt. Then it supports the rest of the Pack by temporarily creating the conditions required to turn on their respective Wound Gift Facets, which fits really well with the Cahalith's role.

    Cunning is similarly cool in concept, but I think it could be implemented better. What would be ideal in my opinion is if it let you treat Wounds as Loci for the purposes of Reaching.


    Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

    Comment


    • #3
      I could see the bite from a Bale Hound inflicting the Wounded Condition, persistently on Exceptional success. Wounded Condition would just be the penalties for being in a Wound, in Condition form. The penalty isn't that bad, a -2 to resist Kuruth, and damage doing one more damage to the person or spirit, which is the meat of it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Oh man. I had a similar idea for a campaign I've been trying to conceptualize where a friend of mine plays a Bale Hound infiltrating an otherwise normal pack unbeknownst to the players. The logistics make it near impossible to pull off. I may just run it as a one or two person campaign, having the non Bale members of the pack as NPCs. We'll see.

        In my version of Tainted Moon, the Bale Hound starts with whatever facet his auspice favoured and could gain others by killing and eating the heart of an Uratha of another auspice while in a Wound. Very specific, I know. Also, in this headcanon, the Uratha is initiated into the Bale Hounds by eating his own heart (which is how he gets his first facet of the Tainted Moon Gift). They were incredibly powerful gifts, though and focused on the auspice's talents and corrupting them. The goal of the Bale Hound of course would be to eat the heart of each member of the pack and become the Uber Hound.

        Cunning - The target loses access to all Moon Gifts for a number of days equal to the Bale Hound's Cunning renown. If the prey enters a Wound during this time, he loses all sensory input, becoming blind, deaf and unable to smell or feel the world around him until the effect ends.

        This was mostly focused on taking out a superior opponents or even a whole pack by luring them into a Wound.


        Glory - The Bale Hound is always aware of any Prophetic Dreams a Cahalith within her Glory in miles is experiencing. The Bale Hound may enter and alter this dream as she sees fit. Further, the Bale Hound may emulate a Prophetic Dream at any time, fabricating it in anyway she sees fit.

        Was also thinking of allowing this one to function as Dream Hunter does, since most of that facet's effects would be really neat for a Bale Hound to use, and it would make this facet useful against non-Cahalith.


        Purity - This one was basically leeching a number of Garou turns equal to Purity. (so 2 Purity would mean 2 turns more in Garou and -2 turns for the prey). Pretty basic. Would also let Garou form do aggravated whilst inside a Wound.


        Honor - The Bale Hound must speak a lie aloud and activate this gift. The lie cannot be more than one sentence long. That lie becomes true to a chosen Uratha who hears it. For example, the Bale Hound may say “Jacob killed your Alpha,” and the prey will be taken by a sudden certainty of its truth, though he will not be able to explain why. If the Bale Hound is more specific, however, and says “You saw Jacob kill your Alpha last night at Echo Park..” the prey’s memory will be rewritten to support this version of events, though details not covered by the Bale Hound’s lie might be fuzzy or entirely absent. This Gift fails to work if the Bale Hound’s Honor renown is lower than her prey’s. A Bale Hound can only have a number of lies active equal to his Honor, and replacing a lie removes its effects entirely and reveals the Bale Hound's true nature to its prey.

        This one was tricky. I had it at a 5 essence cost, and wasn't sure if I wanted to make its effects permanent (until cancelled) or not. Number of months(?) equal to Honor? I wasn't sure. I wanted it to serve as the long con, turn a pack against each other sort of thing, not an uber powerful God spell. Also considered it only working on Elodoth.



        Wisdom - This one was a Wound Tainted bite that would inflict Wound Taint on Spirits, essentially making them subservient to the Bale Hound for a time dependent on how much Wound tainted essence the Bale Hound pumped into the Spirit on contact. It could be activated at any time after the bite, essentially creating a sleeper agent. The spirit would also gain the Wound Taint numina which it could use against other spirits. That last part was tentative. Just liked the idea of using a spirit to attack a bigger spirit and not risk failing yourself and getting killed.

        I was also thinking these Bale Gifts would need to use something called Wound Essence. And a lot of it. Basically essence obtained in a Wound (either by Locus or wound tainted spirit). Essentially giving the Bale Hound incentive to maintain and create Wounds. But that was just an idea.

        So yeah, that's what I had so far, more or less. Barring dice rolls an essence costs, and exceptionals/botches. We had similar ideas, though you made the Wound gift the powerful one, I was too lazy/uncreative to come up with two different gifts. The Cunning and Honor ones especially are worryingly powerful, so I will probably scale those bag depending on how my playtesting goes. I needed them to be pretty powerful for one Bale Hound to have a chance against 5 other Uratha.


        I really love your Wound Gift, though. I'd love to borrow some of those. The Cunning one especially is really cool, though, and the Wisdom one makes a lot of sense. That was sort of an oversight on my part, since Bale Hounds would need some way to find Wounds one imagines.

        Also want to add that I love reading your Actual Play, please never stop updating it.
        Last edited by Amravanti; 10-14-2015, 02:20 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          the_duck, cool ideas. But I agree ( as almost always ) with Charlaquin here. At least till...

          Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
          What if Gift of the Tainted Moon is a Moon Gift instead of a Shadow Gift? Or keep Tainted Moon as-is and make a separate Bale Hound Moon Gift. But something about the idea of a universal Moon Gift that's available to Bale Hounds of any Auspice is really cool.
          Should not Bale Hound be able to use normal Auspices Moon Gifts? They capture, torture and deflayer normal Lunes to make Corrupted versions that teach them Tainted Moon Gifts, at least according to Blasphemies, do not they?

          So should not Tainted Moon Gifts works as normal Moon Gifts schema, only with small twists?

          Or maybe characters can use normal Moon Gifts and Tainted Moon give them possibility to hidden Malejin brand?

          Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
          Cunning is similarly cool in concept, but I think it could be implemented better. What would be ideal in my opinion is if it let you treat Wounds as Loci for the purposes of Reaching.
          Wounds are not Loci on default?


          My stuff for Realms of Pugmire, Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
          LGBT+ through Ages
          LGBT+ in CoD games

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks for the replies guys, always appreciated!


            Charlaquin:
            I had toyed with the idea of five separate Tainted Moon Gift lists, but in the end doing one tree was easier. It also means that Bale Hounds don't get a ream of special powers that are on;y going to be used than less 1/5 of them (thanks to Pure Bale Hounds).

            A possible choice to the Tainted Moon Gifts is whether the Auspice Renown Facet is restricted to each Auspice. If the restriction version is taken, I'm tempted to up the power for each one.

            Thanks regarding the Wound Gifts! The Wisdom one is essentially the same one in First Edition. I'll have a toy around with other benefits.. Your Glory version is awesome, consider it stolen with gratitude! I like your Cunning version, it does a similar thing (buggering off) but... My words fail me, more appropriate to werewolves?

            Amravanti:
            It will be interesting in my game, one of the players may be slipping into the service of the Maeljin. It'll hilariously go well, I expect. Hence the sudden need for solid mechanics!

            Your versions are interesting, in that they're generally more powerful than I was imaging for the Tainted Moon Gifts, what they do look like are inverted Auspice Abilities, which is an intriguing possibility. What do you think? The Honour one is perfect for what I was thinking. The duration? Maybe until after the lie has a tragic effect (you kill a packmate for the perceived lie), or Honour in months? Same with the Wisdom stuff, that's great, thanks! I'll batter that into a mechanical form!

            Wyrdhamster:
            I'm going to probably still allow the use of Moon Gifts, if they can't then that implies (at least to me and my head canon) Mother Lune knows - which itself has 'interesting' implications.

            As far as I'm aware Wounds are not Loci. They're overlaps in the Shadow to where-ever the Maeljin come from (in the discussion in the Inferno sourcebook, it's the Inferno). A loci *could* form in it's area as a result of the concentrated essence and resonance, but not by default.

            Of course the above statement is probably my own interpretation of the metaphysics, but in my game for example - the 'hole' in the ruined building in a) on the spirit side, b) leads to the realm of the Maeljin.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
              Should not Bale Hound be able to use normal Auspices Moon Gifts? They capture, torture and deflayer normal Lunes to make Corrupted versions that teach them Tainted Moon Gifts, at least according to Blasphemies, do not they?
              Remember, although the 2e core book only has one Moon Gift per Auspice, they did future-proof the design by saying you can buy another Moon Gift for 5 experiences. So, if Tainted Moon was a Moon Gift, they would be able to have both their Auspice Moon Gift and Tainted Moon, as long as they paid the exp for Tainted Moon.

              Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
              Wounds are not Loci on default?
              Not all of them, as far as I know. If a Wound formed at the sight of a Locus it would be, but if one formed elsewhere it would not be.

              Originally posted by the_duck View Post
              Charlaquin:
              I had toyed with the idea of five separate Tainted Moon Gift lists, but in the end doing one tree was easier. It also means that Bale Hounds don't get a ream of special powers that are on;y going to be used than less 1/5 of them (thanks to Pure Bale Hounds).
              Oh, I was thinking of a single Moon Gift that was always considered in-Auspice for Bale Hounds and keyed off what ever their Auspice's (or former Auspice's) primary Renown was. Five separate Tained Moon Gifts would be cool, but a lot of work and wordcount.

              Originally posted by the_duck View Post
              A possible choice to the Tainted Moon Gifts is whether the Auspice Renown Facet is restricted to each Auspice. If the restriction version is taken, I'm tempted to up the power for each one.
              That's an interesting thought. Worth playing around with, at any rate.

              Originally posted by the_duck View Post
              Thanks regarding the Wound Gifts! The Wisdom one is essentially the same one in First Edition. I'll have a toy around with other benefits.. Your Glory version is awesome, consider it stolen with gratitude! I like your Cunning version, it does a similar thing (buggering off) but... My words fail me, more appropriate to werewolves?
              No problem! I actually wasn't aware of the 1e version, I was not much of a Werewolf fan during 1e, but if that's how the Wound-Detecting power used to work, it's probably reasonable to have this version do the same thing.
              Last edited by Charlaquin; 10-14-2015, 12:58 PM.


              Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Amravanti View Post
                Also want to add that I love reading your Actual Play, please never stop updating it.
                Sorry, I missed this! At the moment I've let the actual plays fall to the wayside (the rigours of being a PhD student). What I'll try to do is write up multi-session updates!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by the_duck View Post
                  What they do look like are inverted Auspice Abilities, which is an intriguing possibility. What do you think?
                  .
                  That's exactly what I was thinking. Corrupted version of the auspice abilities, especially suited at taking down or corrupting the role of each. The Cunning and Purity ones especially could use some work.

                  I do like your idea for modifying the Honor one to be based on a tragic outcome. I might try to figure out a condition and a resolution for it. Good luck on the campaign, sounds like its going to be fun.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks! I'm putting together some mechanics (including the Gifts) together, I'll post them once I've got them hammered out a bit.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'm back! So I've hammered together some Bale Hound mechanics (mostly Gifts). Let me know what you think, one thing I'm having difficulty with is the dramatic failure for the Wound Gift (Wisdom). As ever, any feedback is appreciated!

                      Bale Hounds – Second Edition Rules

                      The Bale Hounds, the Asar Gadar, are werewolves who have sworn service to the scheming Lords (and Ladies) of Wounds, the Maeljin. There are many reasons for an Uratha to turn to such service, and these motives are explored in great detail in Blasphemies, a Werewolf the Forsaken First Edition sourcebook.
                      This document details the main mechanical features of the Bale Hounds in the second edition, for more background, motives, and description of patrons check out Blasphemies.
                      A Bale Hound, as described here, is assumed to be a werewolf that has taken an oath of allegiance to the Maeljin. Once this oath is made the werewolf has a metaphysical bond to the Maeljin, and as a result gains (as well as a Blood and Bone) a vice, which acts exactly like as described in the World of Darkness Second Edition Core. Depending on the Maeljin the Bale Hound has sworn allegiance to, the Bale Hound gains a specific vice:
                      • Pseulak – Deceit – Lul-Rihur
                      • Maastraac – Envy – Asusar-Rihur
                      • Beliar – Sloth – Na’aki-Rihur
                      • Asmodai – Wrath – Makuh-Rihur
                      • Thurifuge – Violence – Azitha-Rihur
                      • Lamashtu – Pride – Namhur-Rihur
                      • Mammon – Greed – Gushasu-Nihur
                      • Carnala – Lust – Desasu-Nihur
                      • Baalphegor – Gluttony – Sa’asu-Nihur
                      The Bale Hounds have numerous tricks, but the main advantages that they have is that of Flayed Lunes. These are the luminous emissaries of Mother Lune, hollowed out and then fed Wounded Essence, after this the Rite of the Dead Light is practised – the Lune becomes Flayed.
                      Flayed Lunes are immensely useful for the Asur Gader, they are the source of special Gifts, unable to be taught elsewhere, and they are the source of Renown coming from the actions of the Bale Hound which would otherwise be ignored or outright rejected by Lunes.
                      There are two common Gifts that are taught by Flayed Lunes; the Gifts of the Tainted Moon, and the Wound Gifts.

                      Tainted Moon Gifts
                      Rejection of Radiance (Cunning)
                      The senses are the source of comfort, taken away a prey panics. Using this facet the Bale Hound robs their prey of the only comfort left to them.
                      Cost: 1 Essence
                      Dice Pool: Wits + Intimidation + Cunning vs Composure + Primal Urge
                      Action: Reflexive
                      The Uratha targets a character within sight, muttering curses.
                      Dramatic Failure: The Uratha gains the Blinded and Deaf tilts for a scene.
                      Failure: The facet fails.
                      Success: The target suffers the Blinded and Deaf tilts for the next scene.
                      Exceptional Success: In addition to the results of the success, if the Uratha has access to Moon Gifts, they lose access to ranks equal to the Bale Hound’s Cunning Renown. For example, if the Bale Hound has two Cunning, and their target has three ranks in Crescent Moon Gifts, the target loses access to the third and second Gifts.

                      The Night Mare (Glory)
                      Inspiration can hurt the cause of the Maeljin. Bale Hounds with this facet can subvert prophetic visions so that their story is true.
                      Cost: 1 Essence
                      Dice Pool: Intelligence + Occult + Glory
                      Action: Instant
                      The Bale Hound meditates, focusing on the still wet entrails of a sacrifice and transcends her sinful flesh.
                      Dramatic Failure: The Bale Hound gains the Ban condition, and cannot sleep as phantoms haunt her every waking move.
                      Failure: The facet fails.
                      Successful: The Uratha is aware of Prophetic Dreams within her Glory Renown in miles. She is able to enter these dreams and modify them, changing their meaning. If the Bale Hound accumulates more successes than her target’s Resolve she is able to define the message of such a dream.
                      Exceptional Success: The Bale Hound, being aware of nascent prophecies in the area is able to glean something of the future, like a parasite. She is able to ask a question about the current state of affairs in the area covered, which the Storyteller must answer truthfully.

                      This Lie is True (Honor)
                      Truth is subjective, a different point of view can change a whole life. The servants of the Maeljin know this, and they know how to taint the Truth.
                      Cost: 1 Essence
                      Dice Pool: Manipulation + Subterfuge + Honor vs Composure + Primal Urge
                      Action: Instant
                      The Asar Gader whispers a lie to her victim. This facet can make that true for enough time for it to be effective.
                      Dramatic Failure: The Uratha gains the Ban condition, and must lie and cannot tell the truth.
                      Failure: The victim does not believe.
                      Successful: The Uratha speaks a lie, and the victim wholly believes it, “David killed your boyfriend” is an example. The victim believes this lie and acts upon its implications. The facet lasts until the victim has acting on the lie, with tragic effects (such as killing David in a rage).
                      Exceptional Success: Bolstered by spreading a truth, the Bale Hound regains a Willpower point.

                      Soiled Rage (Purity)
                      Kuruth is a state of horror, as an Uratha submits the Goddess given taint within them, this facet enhances the experience for a Bale Hound, making it hard to leave such an enlightening experience.
                      Cost: -
                      Action: Reflexive
                      Duration: Permanent
                      Rolls to resist Basu-Im are penalised by -2. Once in Gauru form the Bale Hound increases the time that they are able to stay in that form by their Purity dots. She also adds her Purity to rolls to resist powers that would remove her from Basum-Im.

                      Corrupted Spirit (Wisdom)
                      A Bale Hound who wishes to live the next night will make use of Wounded allies. A smart one will create those allies.
                      Cost: Variable Essence
                      Dice Pool: Manipulation + Occult + Wisdom - Resistance
                      Action: Reflexive
                      Duration: The spirit is under the effect of the Wounded Essence condition for nights equal to the Bale Hound’s Wisdom. This is normally enough time for the Asar Gadar to fully corrupt the spirit, however.
                      As the Bale Hound successfully hits a spirit, she may attempt to infect the spirit with Wounded Essence.
                      Dramatic Failure: The Bale Hound is wracked by their own corruption, and suffers an Aggravated damage.
                      Failure: The facet fails.
                      Success: The spirit suffers gains the amount of Essence the Bale Hound spent, and the Wounded Essence condition,
                      Exceptional Success: There is a brief moment of parasitism between the Bale Hound and the spirit, and the Bale Hound gains the Essence spent, back.

                      Condition: Wounded Essence
                      The character has been infected by Essence from a Wounded Spirit (or has consumed it), or has been the subject of a Bale Hound power. As a result has internalised some of the Maeljin’s taint.
                      The character suffers the effect of a Wound as long as the Wounded Essence in their system, as well as treats a Bale Hound’s impression on them as one higher for the purposes of Social Manoeuvring.
                      Resolution: The character spends all the Wounded Essence in their system.

                      Gifts of the Wound
                      Open Wound (Cunning)
                      A Wound is an opening, and with this facet the Bale Hound is able to push themselves through the puncture.
                      Cost: 1 Essence
                      Action: Reflexive
                      Duration: 1 turn
                      The Bale Hound treats the Wound as a Loci for the purposes of Reaching. The cost of this is spent after a successful Reaching roll.

                      Wound Blessing (Glory)
                      Sometimes the faithful must leave the grounds of the Maeljin, but this facet is able to bring some of that corruption with them.
                      Cost: 1 Essence
                      Action: Instant
                      The Bale Hound howls out, proclaiming the coming of the Wounded Lords.
                      Dramatic Failure: The Bale Hound gains the Ban condition, the Hound cannot leave the boundaries of a Wound, and not the area created by the use of Emissary of the Wounds.
                      Failure: The Bale Hound’s echoes, with no effect.
                      Success: The area around the Bale Hound in her Renown Glory in 10 yards, counts as having the effects of a Wound in it. Any character entering this area counts as having entered a Wound with regards to the effect. The area is static, and does not follow the movements of the Bale Hound. Sometimes Viruhk-Ur can be seen in the vicinity of these bridgeheads. The Bale Hound is not necessarily immune to the Wound effects.
                      Exception Success: The Bale Hound, having successfully spread the taint, becomes protected by her purpose and for the next run increase his armour by her dots in Glory Renown.

                      Lord of the Wound (Honor)
                      A true servant of the Maeljin deals with its other servants, not acting in isolation.
                      Cost: -
                      Duration: Permanent
                      This facet Links the Bale Hound to other servants of the Maeljin, giving her a bonus equal to her dots in Honor in socialising with spirits, and counts her impression as one higher for the purposes of social manoeuvring.

                      Wound Born (Purity)
                      In the presence of a Wound a Bale Hound can be roused to great things, but such actions must be stimulated in the correct fashion.
                      Cost: -
                      Duration: Permanent
                      This facet allows the Bale Hound to ignore the effects of a Wound, and in its presence able to turn pain into strength. When within the boundaries of the a Wound the Bale Hound does not suffer the penalties of a Wound, and additionally wound penalties are reversed, so -2 becomes +2 to all rolls.

                      Communion with the Wound (Wisdom)
                      The ability to know where a Wound has appeared is a useful one, as well as to have some idea what lies within, and who the guilty party is. As a result, this facet is quite popular.
                      Cost: 1 Essence
                      Dice Pool: Wits + Investigation + Wisdom
                      Action: Instant
                      The Bale Hound concentrates on her surroundings, and this facet allows her to perceive openings to the realm of the Maeljin.
                      Dramatic Failure: The Bale Hound gains the Ban condition, and must…
                      Failure: The facet fails.
                      Success: The Bale Hound knows the location of any Wound within her Wisdom in miles, and why the Wound was formed. Inside these Wounds she gains a bonus equal to her Wisdom in defence and initiative.
                      Exceptional Success: The Bale Hound also gains a bonus to Investigation rolls equal to her Wisdom for actions related to these Wounds.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'd add a condition on This Lie is True (Honor) and have it be a resolution upon suffering a breaking point (related or not to the acting on the lie - some lies don't require people to act on them)

                        Rejection of Radiance (Cunning) lasts the whole scene?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Wound Blessing (Glory) marks the territory for one scene? Is repeated use of this Gift can create permanent Wound?


                          My stuff for Realms of Pugmire, Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
                          LGBT+ through Ages
                          LGBT+ in CoD games

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                          • #14
                            I wanna point a key difference between Hounds of Violence and Hounds of Wrath, for the not so read: The Hound of Wrath indulges in his own quite incredible destructive urges. The Hound of Violence ignites conflicts and wars. Hence why Thurifuge is known as the Architect of Violence.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'd like to point out that we don't even know if there are these nine Maeljin anymore. Without the whole Seven Sin thing, the breadth of demony spirits has changed. We know we have the Maeljin of Violence and Deception playing a strong role in Werewolf still. But the Seven Deadly Sins aren't really a thing anymore, so we could have more Maeljin than these, using any dark concept. Maeljin of Hatred, Crueltry, Treachery, and more instead of the old ones. Hells, we could have a Maeljin of Hastiness! That is one of the new example Vices, so it could work.

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