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Suthilu, the Bat Host

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  • #16
    Ooooh, I like these. There are caves all over the place in my current game's setting. Will need to see if I can work them in.

    Originally posted by Cinder View Post
    Rasing this thread from the dead while checking on my past works.

    I'm not sure about what can be done with the Bats, since they have their Dread Powers and description, but the more I look at them, the more I feel like they're lacking something. Perhaps it's just a matter of me writing them a while ago when I was barely familiar with the Forsaken's 2nd Edition, perhaps something else, but I'd like to know if there's something you think that could be done to improve them. I asked the same while updating my Bee Host and the suggestions helped me a lot.

    So, anything you'd like to see me doing with my Bats? Either corrections, new stuff or anything else. No wrong answers here, just shoot.

    And thanks!

    EDIT: For starters, I can try to check what I wrote and clean it up a little, that's for sure.
    More Dread Powers are always nice to see, if you have any ideas.

    The only thing I'm a bit hazy on is how the bats' activities are masked. The kind of violence that a Colony spreads when it wakes is pretty overt. Which I love, it's extremely gruesome and in keeping with their views, but it seems difficult to keep a secret for very long. Presumably it's just that they mostly end up in rural areas, coupled with the fact that a full Colony attack is a pretty rare occurrence?

    Beyond that, the more radical idea I had while reading was that it would be interesting if the Suthilu had some kind of Rite-equivalent. Ritual sorcery sort of suits the idea of these Black Sun visions and could tie into other elements of their behaviour, like if a particularly difficult Rite were necessary to rouse the Colony, but that could also be handled easily enough without explicit mechanics.

    Either way, super cool write-up, and thank you very much for raising the topic up again. It's given me all sorts of fun ideas.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Azahul View Post
      Ooooh, I like these. There are caves all over the place in my current game's setting. Will need to see if I can work them in.


      More Dread Powers are always nice to see, if you have any ideas.

      The only thing I'm a bit hazy on is how the bats' activities are masked. The kind of violence that a Colony spreads when it wakes is pretty overt. Which I love, it's extremely gruesome and in keeping with their views, but it seems difficult to keep a secret for very long. Presumably it's just that they mostly end up in rural areas, coupled with the fact that a full Colony attack is a pretty rare occurrence?

      Beyond that, the more radical idea I had while reading was that it would be interesting if the Suthilu had some kind of Rite-equivalent. Ritual sorcery sort of suits the idea of these Black Sun visions and could tie into other elements of their behaviour, like if a particularly difficult Rite were necessary to rouse the Colony, but that could also be handled easily enough without explicit mechanics.

      Either way, super cool write-up, and thank you very much for raising the topic up again. It's given me all sorts of fun ideas.
      Thank you.

      About the Bats' activities, it's pretty much as you said. They hide away from civilization, sleep for long periods of time and rarely act in unison, so that's what allows them to remain out of sight. Once the Suthilu come out to play though, they indeed are quite bad at keeping a low profile. Which of course means it won't take long for Uratha to identify the threat and go hunting. Lone Bats or really small groups behave like you would expect blood-crazed maniacs to behave, which is not a good thing but is manageable, but a real colony attack makes things escalate really quickly. It's part lack of subtlety, part innate thirst for bloodshed and part insane recklessness: most Suthilu don't care about the consequences until they taste the claws of the wolves and remember why the Uratha are scary.

      Out of setting, back in the day I wrote them that way to act as a mirror to my Bees, which are both disciplined, composed and care about the health of the Shadow in their own twisted way. The Bats also have generous traces of Apocalypse's Black Spiral Dancers and W40K Night Lords in their DNA, just to give a clearer image of how I picture them.

      Also, thanks for your suggestions. I'll think about those and see if I can come up with something interesting!
      Last edited by Cinder; 07-04-2018, 07:46 AM.


      Cinder's Comprehensive Collection of Creations - Homebrew Hub

      I write about Beast: The Primordial a lot

      This is what I'm working on

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      • #18
        I enjoy the Black Spiral Dancer influence, though I don’t really see the Night Lords, the Idigam they are borne from has little in common at all with Konrad Curze aside from madness and maybe the prophetic powers... but nah, I see the Suthilu being more similar to Dark Eldar , as suffering and the resonance generated by that suffering is the immediate goal, and bringing about the rise of Anthelios is simply an impossible dream they want to achieve... but never will due to a pesky thing called Helios being in the way lol.

        Interestingly enough, I could see them being rather interesting foils to my Gisilu, it’s hard to feed and enjoy slaughter and panic when everyone is dead after all

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Korogra View Post
          I enjoy the Black Spiral Dancer influence, though I don’t really see the Night Lords, the Idigam they are borne from has little in common at all with Konrad Curze aside from madness and maybe the prophetic powers... but nah, I see the Suthilu being more similar to Dark Eldar , as suffering and the resonance generated by that suffering is the immediate goal, and bringing about the rise of Anthelios is simply an impossible dream they want to achieve... but never will due to a pesky thing called Helios being in the way lol.

          Interestingly enough, I could see them being rather interesting foils to my Gisilu, it’s hard to feed and enjoy slaughter and panic when everyone is dead after all
          The Night Lords part in nothing huge, mostly terror tactics, love for darkness and imagery. I know I was thinking about them while I was writing, but without going as far as taking elements like Konrad Curze, Sevatar and Talos in consideration.

          There's some inspiration for their style in the Dark Eldars though, no doubt
          Last edited by Cinder; 07-19-2018, 12:11 PM.


          Cinder's Comprehensive Collection of Creations - Homebrew Hub

          I write about Beast: The Primordial a lot

          This is what I'm working on

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Cinder View Post

            The Night Lords part in nothing huge, mostly terror tactics, love for darkness and imagery. I know I was thinking about them while I was writing, but without going as far as taking elements like Konrad Curze, Sevatar and Talos in consideration.

            There's some inspiration for their style in the Dark Eldars though, that's for sure.
            That’s fair, though if you REALLY wanna think about it... they are just flying Skaven xD

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Korogra View Post

              That’s fair, though if you REALLY wanna think about it... they are just flying Skaven xD
              I don't see that, unlike Dark Eldars. No trace of Skaven in my creative process here, at least.

              But I'm not gonna tell you what to see in the Bat Host and were to look for inspirations, that's for sure


              Cinder's Comprehensive Collection of Creations - Homebrew Hub

              I write about Beast: The Primordial a lot

              This is what I'm working on

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Cinder View Post

                I don't see that, unlike Dark Eldars. No trace of Skaven in my creative process here, at least.

                But I'm not gonna tell you what to see in the Bat Host and were to look for inspirations, that's for sure
                I think it was a joke about bats being flying rats.


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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Second Chances View Post

                  I think it was a joke about bats being flying rats.
                  Oh, that totally passed over me. My bad. I'm kinda distracted right now, but I still should have seen that, sorry


                  Cinder's Comprehensive Collection of Creations - Homebrew Hub

                  I write about Beast: The Primordial a lot

                  This is what I'm working on

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Cinder View Post

                    Oh, that totally passed over me. My bad. I'm kinda distracted right now, but I still should have seen that, sorry
                    There was that joke, but I also was referring to their sociopathic, douche bag nature, it’s very much like the fluffy little skaven wavens xD

                    And Skaven are a lot like fuzzy Dark Elves/ Dark Eldar when it comes to being a psychopathic sadist with a flush of serial killer thrown in.

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                    • #25
                      So, we now have a writeup of Bat the Pangaean in the Pangaea Unleashed thread. Just saying, since it’s worth a mention.


                      MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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                      • #26
                        It would be interesting to see something like the Plague King or the Spinner Hag, to better associate a host with a Pangaean (and if they're even related). We have Bird, but the Halaku seem to descend specifically from a crow Pangaean, called out as either the Carrion Prince or the Corpse-Eater, which may even be two separate entities.

                        That said, I don't think it should have impact on existing homebrews, as even if Bat doesn't seem to fit with the Suthilu (or another Pangaean with another host) there's always ways it can be explained, with thousands of years, the destruction of a world and disappearance of a god likely impacting hosts so that they don't particularly resemble their progenitor. And through the idigam we've seen how Pangaeans are not the only source of hosts.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by nofather View Post
                          It would be interesting to see something like the Plague King or the Spinner Hag, to better associate a host with a Pangaean (and if they're even related). We have Bird, but the Halaku seem to descend specifically from a crow Pangaean, called out as either the Carrion Prince or the Corpse-Eater, which may even be two separate entities.

                          That said, I don't think it should have impact on existing homebrews, as even if Bat doesn't seem to fit with the Suthilu (or another Pangaean with another host) there's always ways it can be explained, with thousands of years, the destruction of a world and disappearance of a god likely impacting hosts so that they don't particularly resemble their progenitor. And through the idigam we've seen how Pangaeans are not the only source of hosts.
                          Depends on the type of impact, I think. Something like “Bat isn’t particularly evil, so Suthilu should never be Black Spiral Dancer- inspired” should be discouraged. Expanding the Echolocation Dread Power of the Suthilu to some sort of sound-based multi-presence for “elder” Shards, borrowing from Bat’s Shriek Reach ability, sound fascinating.


                          MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                            So, we now have a writeup of Bat the Pangaean in the Pangaea Unleashed thread. Just saying, since it’s worth a mention.
                            I saw it! When it was posted in Acrozatarim's Patreon, it got me quite interested.

                            I'll see if there's something to be done with it. Both you and nofather are raising some good points about it.

                            I guess I'll have to solve my dilemma between what to do with Bats and their creator, the Obsidian Butterfly. Lots of things have changed since I wrote both and I can't decide yet how update things, what to change and what to keep. While I still like both of these creations of mine a lot, I wonder if perhaps I should change their connection. Seriously not sure about that.

                            Some things will stay for sure, like the Suthilu's typical behavior (I'd argue it's a big part of their charm), but I'm currently considering several other ideas. Overall, though, the biggest thing I'm waiting for is Shunned by the Moon, so we can have a clearer picture of Hosts in 2nd Edition and, hopefully, what entities can spawn them. That book can't come soon enough.
                            Last edited by Cinder; 08-09-2018, 07:48 AM.


                            Cinder's Comprehensive Collection of Creations - Homebrew Hub

                            I write about Beast: The Primordial a lot

                            This is what I'm working on

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                            • #29
                              In your work, the idigam who birthed the Suthilu was born from Bat casting her- his?- own heart out, wasn’t it? If so, then it and its progeny hating and being hated by the Sun (and the Moon) do make sense in a roundabout way, seeing how Bat by Acrozatarim seems quite affectionate with both. If the two Celestines were returning the affection, they may view the very existence of the Suthilu as an insult to their friend. Especially Helios. He isn’t exactly known for being forgiving...
                              Last edited by 21C Hermit; 08-09-2018, 09:58 AM.


                              MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                                In your work, the idigam who birthed the Suthilu was born from Bat casting her- his?- own heart out, wasn’t it? If so, then it and its progeny hating and being hated by the Sun (and the Moon) do make sense in a roundabout way, seeing how Bat by Acrozatarim seems quite affectionate with both. If the two Celestines were returning the affection, they may view the very existence of the Suthilu as an insult to their friend. Especially Helios. He isn’t exactly known for being forgiving...
                                Sorry, couple of busy days, but eventually I figured a quick reply on the phone is better than no reply.

                                That's a good one, I'll keep It in mind in case I decide to lean on Acrozatarim's Bat for the Suthilu.

                                It was not Bat that casted its heart out (no Pangeans back then), but a darkness-themed Idigam. The idigam changed and the heart became the Suthilu. But it's stuff whose details are easy enough to change, if needed


                                Cinder's Comprehensive Collection of Creations - Homebrew Hub

                                I write about Beast: The Primordial a lot

                                This is what I'm working on

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