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  • #61
    Originally posted by Acrozatarim View Post
    Just so's you know, there is more supporting content for The Pack coming. I wrote up an additional section for each Lodge, titled 'Mysteries', which details some specific oddities, heresies, ritual practices and the like that the Lodge possesses - like the Lodge of Garm rejecting the second tenet of the Oath of the Moon, and the like. They're only short, but it was a toss-up between them and the story hooks sections, and the story hooks won out for the main book. So that's another 1,500 words or so that'll be turning up as a web supplement or blog post at some point.
    Jawesome. It just passed Exalted on the Hottest Titles list.

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    • #62
      I'm going to review each chapter here as I read through them.



      Chapter 1:

      The in-depth explanation of pack nature is pretty good here. The chapter presents four packs, each which are structured differently. There is a game studio, a station of firemen, a group of uratha who fear hurting others so much they leave everything but killing to their wolf-blooded and human packmates, and a group of therapists helping the poor and on the sidelines offering support for the rich and criminal who are addicted.

      There is also a focus on what makes the pack unified and ideas how they gain new members with lovely gray morality to it. A new system of the First Hunt is introduced, and it ties with the system of Troupe Play. Having used it myself, I can recommend the system.

      Overall, the chapter offers a good amount of options to make a pack work and encourage players to think more on the pack. Best of all, it is very simple and open. The need for a pack and the lack of pack (or tribe) is brought up well. Most packs look at Ghost Wolves with suspicion, very much like any insular group would someone who refuses to ally.

      Though, I would have liked to see an example of a more wolf-like or a rural pack. Three of the four packs were based on the work the characters did. Though, each pack's methology was different. The sole more supernaturally based pack is a very border case, though a cool one. It still doesn't stand for a more 'werewolf' pack, in truth.

      I would have also liked to get some bios for some pack members in each pack.



      My gallery.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by nofather View Post

        More Lodges to ask about. The Cull of China, the Lodge of the Blue Moon, and the Hollow Rivers.
        My notion for the Cull is that they're a modern revival of the Cull from Sundered World, re-emerging in China initially.

        The Blue Moon, well, if I get to write on whatever book covers Wounds, Bale Hounds, etc, they'd be a suitable topic for that.

        Hollow Rivers are actually supposed to be Hollow Reivers, but it looks like it got (in)corrected in editing - easy enough mistake to make! I'll have to ask for it to be errata'd back once I get my comp pdf and know what page etc it's on.

        Originally posted by Second Chances View Post
        The Lodge of Apollo and Lodge of the Screaming Moon have each reinforced for me that we need a modern-day space blue-book. Hell, at this rate we may even need one just for Werewolf. Both Lodges are bloody brilliant and great adventure fodder.
        Glad you like them! I have notions about space/the metaphysics of the different bands of boundary around the world.

        Originally posted by Arcanist View Post
        What's the Temple of Apollo like?
        Of the five sample Lodges in the book, they're the ones who are outright blasphemous; they just hide it well behind nice decor, high-class parties and hungry smiles.


        - Chris Allen, Aberrant Line Developer, Freelance Writer

        ​Like my work? Feel like helping me stay supplied with tea? Check out my Patreon

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Lian View Post
          So the Warden in Dubai he's a Demon right?
          Sounds like a God Machine angel, to be perfectly honest. Warden is a typical name that an angel might adapt, its working towards a highly organized plan, it arrived when a complex industrial plan came to fruition, it has strange mastery over the Hisil that implies a Power behind it, and an Agency has interest in working against it.

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          • #65
            Man, I want all the tribal pillars, like yesterday.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by atamajakki View Post
              I have to applaud this book for just drowning the text in off-hand plot hooks. Five Lodges are detailed in depth, but dozens are mentioned briefly and with enough bait on the hook to make me want to know more about each one; a bunch of Totems are likewise tossed in there.

              I need a writeup on the Tindalosi yesterday.
              Yeah, the examples and references to all the Lodges was a specific style decision I took to try and make the text as useful as possible.

              If I wrote up the Tinalosi, I'd want to write up the Clocktower at the same time given the two Lodges really don't get on with each other.

              Originally posted by atamajakki View Post
              Holy crap, Malta is exactly what I wanted it to be. The 2e settings continue to deliver.
              Glad you like it Malta is probably the most fun hunting ground, from my perspective, with all its weirdness and the way it plugs in to the wider world.

              Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
              Oh, hey, Wily Crows, I don't even need to fish to build, I'll just build that Lodge.
              So the reference to wily Crows is of course the Lodge of Crows, ie one of the Storm Lord tribal pillars. I figured that if anyone was likely to have the savvy and sheer wit to catch fae-things in their net, it'd be the Lodge that specialises in that sort of informant/influence/info-gathering hunt approach.

              Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post
              So the Eaters-of-the-Dead definitely have the makings of a potential full blown Tribe - a Firstborn patron + a Prey not covered by the other Tribes (the undead). Hmmm... if they made the jump, I'm pondering what their Gift list would look like. Ideally they shouldn't crib directly from the Bone-Shadows. Maybe bring Blood & Bone Gifts back from 1E for them...
              I've mulled over this; I think I'd create a new Hunger or Carrion Gift for them.

              For bonus points, I'd give the same Gift to the Lodge of the Field of Dogs if they ever hit the tribal level of power.


              - Chris Allen, Aberrant Line Developer, Freelance Writer

              ​Like my work? Feel like helping me stay supplied with tea? Check out my Patreon

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Acrozatarim View Post
                So the reference to wily Crows is of course the Lodge of Crows, ie one of the Storm Lord tribal pillars. I figured that if anyone was likely to have the savvy and sheer wit to catch fae-things in their net, it'd be the Lodge that specialises in that sort of informant/influence/info-gathering hunt approach.
                Ah.

                ...

                Anyone call dibs yet?

                EDIT: I wouldn't tie them to the freehold request-I still feel like that's Mennina territory. That doesn't stop the Crows having grabbed my attention.

                EDIT: Nevermind, don't have the Lodge Book they're in, so I'd trip all over the presentation.
                Last edited by ArcaneArts; 05-12-2016, 05:38 PM.


                Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                Feminine pronouns, please.

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                • #68
                  It just hit Electrum, woo.

                  The Lodge of the Cage sounds like an interesting group. But I suppose they all do, really.

                  I think it could use some Gifts, but it's very interesting to hear about the Cull. Sort of makes you wonder how some of these ideas pop up, thousands of years later.
                  Last edited by nofather; 05-12-2016, 05:48 PM.

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                  • #69
                    Up to an Electrum seller now! I... have no idea what that means

                    Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post

                    EDIT: Nevermind, don't have the Lodge Book they're in, so I'd trip all over the presentation.
                    Well, one thing worth noting is that *all* the Tribal pillar Lodges (and all the Lodges in general, tbh) need a significant overhaul at all levels for the new edition.

                    Admittedly, yes, you'd still want to know what the 1e version was like to be able to harvest the best bits from it for building the new monstrosity.


                    - Chris Allen, Aberrant Line Developer, Freelance Writer

                    ​Like my work? Feel like helping me stay supplied with tea? Check out my Patreon

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Acrozatarim View Post
                      Up to an Electrum seller now! I... have no idea what that means



                      Well, one thing worth noting is that *all* the Tribal pillar Lodges (and all the Lodges in general, tbh) need a significant overhaul at all levels for the new edition.

                      Admittedly, yes, you'd still want to know what the 1e version was like to be able to harvest the best bits from it for building the new monstrosity.
                      Need to know the child to present the adult, as it goes. If I can find someone to borrow the book from(Or heaven forbid, buy the PDF), I'll get back in the queue.


                      Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                      The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                      Feminine pronouns, please.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by nofather View Post
                        Does anyone else think the Vampire section of 'The Other' packmates block stood out a bit oddly? It seems very negative toward the idea. Vampires have numbers and social influence, but 'Not all packs want, or need, to take shortcuts.' Which is true, but then goes on to the Mage section and has them recruiting Mages to be shamans and warrior-priests and to help them take shortcuts.
                        Vampires, generally, are jerks. Jerks who are honest about being jerks, jerks with a good justification, but they're still assholes who also happen to be living addiction metaphors. Shortcuts tend to sour when the path to shortcut takes a detour through someone whose entire priority system revolves around repeatedly draining the blood of other people and making a good environment to take said blood in.

                        Even Beasts, at least, aren't biologically geared towards making all the mortals around them miserable if they're eating well, and in fact the Dark Mother would prefer it if they nudged the world into becoming a better place via fear stick. Vampires make the world worse as a matter of course.


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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Leliel View Post
                          Vampires, generally, are jerks. Jerks who are honest about being jerks, jerks with a good justification, but they're still assholes who also happen to be living addiction metaphors. Shortcuts tend to sour when the path to shortcut takes a detour through someone whose entire priority system revolves around repeatedly draining the blood of other people and making a good environment to take said blood in.

                          Even Beasts, at least, aren't biologically geared towards making all the mortals around them miserable if they're eating well, and in fact the Dark Mother would prefer it if they nudged the world into becoming a better place via fear stick. Vampires make the world worse as a matter of course.
                          I think the Beast part is arguable, especially considering Beasts practically shed fear spirits, but Prometheans have a much worse affect on people and their environment and are still lauded as useful. And as for being jerks, most supernaturals will fit that bill, if it's not Vitae it's something else but they all have their own obsessions. The vampire section seemed to place more of an emphasis on the negative than any of the others.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by nofather View Post

                            I think the Beast part is arguable, especially considering Beasts practically shed fear spirits, but Prometheans have a much worse affect on people and their environment and are still lauded as useful. And as for being jerks, most supernaturals will fit that bill, if it's not Vitae it's something else but they all have their own obsessions. The vampire section seemed to place more of an emphasis on the negative than any of the others.
                            I wrote the vampire section, so I can kind of give you a sense of what I was going for. To some degree, the crossover sections are written with a werewolf bias, and for my money, most Uratha have a pretty dim view of vampires. Not even close to all (or else the section wouldn't be necessary!), but generally werewolves don't have much patience for the kind of selfishness that comes with the Kindred condition -- i.e., they hunt for themselves, not to any particular end. That being said, I wasn't trying to go explicitly negative; it's more what Leliel was saying, in that vampires are jerks (but they're my favourite jerks!)



                            Social justice vampire/freelancer | He/Him

                            Actual Play: Vampire: The Requiem – Bloodlines
                            Masquiem: Curses of Caine in Requiem 2nd
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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Yossarian View Post

                              I wrote the vampire section, so I can kind of give you a sense of what I was going for. To some degree, the crossover sections are written with a werewolf bias, and for my money, most Uratha have a pretty dim view of vampires. Not even close to all (or else the section wouldn't be necessary!), but generally werewolves don't have much patience for the kind of selfishness that comes with the Kindred condition -- i.e., they hunt for themselves, not to any particular end. That being said, I wasn't trying to go explicitly negative; it's more what Leliel was saying, in that vampires are jerks (but they're my favourite jerks!)
                              I see, and appreciate you letting me know the idea behind it.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by nofather View Post

                                I think the Beast part is arguable, especially considering Beasts practically shed fear spirits, but Prometheans have a much worse affect on people and their environment and are still lauded as useful. And as for being jerks, most supernaturals will fit that bill, if it's not Vitae it's something else but they all have their own obsessions. The vampire section seemed to place more of an emphasis on the negative than any of the others.
                                Prometheans are lauded as being useful when you point them in the direction of your enemy, not when they're in your territory. So the Created are basically as useful as nuclear bombs. Something you want dropped on enemies you don't ever want to see again, but something you're very leery about having in your basement.

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