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  • Forsaken Youths

    This thread is a continuation of Breeds in Forsaken, incorporating ideas from The Pack and Dark Eras. The idea is to port something akin to WtA's Breeds into the metaphysics of WtF.

    First, these are Youths, not Breeds. Your parentage only matters in terms of what form you were born in and grew up in: a Hishu Youth was born to human parents in Hishu form, and grew up among humans; an Urhanu Youth was born to wolf parents in Urhanu form, and probably grew up among wolves. The notion here, first articulated by Charlaquin, is that Uratha aren't humans that can turn into wolves, they're shapeshifters that can take human form and wolf form: Hishu grew up locked in human form while Urhanu grew up locked in wolf form; but after the First Change, there are only lingering differences between them.

    The Hishu Youth is straightforward: it is what Werewolf: the Forsaken offers out of the box. No rules changes are needed.

    To facilitate the Urhanu Youth, I'm introducing a “wolf-blood” equivalent for wolves. For the time being, I'm referring to them as Dire Wolves. A Dire Wolf differs from a regular wolf in three ways:

    • First, and most significantly, it's a lot smarter: like the velociraptors from Jurassic Park, the Dire Wolf is capable of reasoned thought; it's sapient, not merely sentient. When creating a Dire Wolf, start by creating a regular character; then apply the effects of the Urhanu form to it, as well as the Urhanu Youth described below. In particular, Mental and Social Attributes are chosen normally: Dire Wolves tend to prioritize Wits and Resolve over Intelligence and Presence and Composure over Manipulation; but there are no requirements that they do so.
    • Second, the Dire Wolf has a Tell. Choose Tells from among the ones available for the Wolf-Bloods. Tells that normally grant access to Dalu form instead grant access to Urshal form, and vice versa. Likewise, a hypothetical Tell that would grant access to Urhanu form instead grants access to Hishu.
    • Finally, the Dire Wolf has access to suitable Wolf-Blooded Merits.

    Where do Dire Wolves come from? One theory is that they're descendants of the Firstborn. Another is that Luna sometimes chooses to bless wolves as she sometimes bestows her blessing on humans. As with Wolf-Blood humans, the truth is a mystery.

    The main inspiration for Dire Wolves is “Mowgli's Brothers”, from Rudyard Kipling's The Jungle Book.

    As mentioned before, the main reason for introducing Dire Wolves is to facilitate the Urhanu Youth. A werewolf with the Urhanu Youth was a Dire Wolf before the First Change. She gets a free dot in Animal Ken, with a free Specialty in Wolves (after all, she grew up as a wolf; comprehending how they think is second nature to her), along with the “no Primary Mental Skills” restriction and a Persistent Condition (“Raised by Wolves”) that replaces the -3 Unskilled penalty with automatic Chance Dice status until it's Resolved. Resolving this Condition involves spending enough Experiences to acclimate to human society, which should be at least as much as buying a Skill dot and maybe as much as buying an Attribute dot; I'm not sure which, but I'm leaning toward the latter. In the meantime, the Urhanu is picking up Beats from this Condition whenever her outsider perspective causes trouble, as per the normal rules for Conditions.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by Dataweaver; 06-14-2016, 04:51 PM.



  • #2
    OK; open for comments.


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    • #3
      Like I said in my post in the You're Playing It Wrong thread, I prefer a simple way of doing it. I was going to just say "You were born a wolf; there are wolfborn wolfblooded", but I have to admit that when you're literally a wolf the term "Wolfblooded" is a bit redundant. I'd call them Homidblooded, though. Isn't Dire Wolf a form granted by a gift, still? Or at least one of the Firstborn. The term "Youths" also feels weird to me. (Also, I saw this thread before you linked it, but I wouldn't have guessed what it was from the title). I'm not really sure why you'd need the "youths" label, either.

      I tend to shy away from "racial traits" when I do stuff, which is why if I used Lupus, they'd just be regular characters who default to Urhan form instead of Hishu. I can understand wanting to mechanically differentiate between the two, but isn't saying an Urhanu gets a free dot of Animal Ken and a Specialty in Wolves like saying a Hishu gets a free dot of Socialize and a specialty in Humans? The Condition is fine, but won't most player characters have shed it by the time they're out of training?

      Also, this:

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      • #4
        This is awesome. I love that you made the penalty to untrained Mental Skills a Persistent Condition!

        I'm going to argue in favor of the name Were-Blooded as opposed to Dire-Wolves. I'd also like to see some new Tells specifically designed with these characters in mind.

        I'd like to kick around the idea of changing the form-based Trait bonuses and penalties for werewolves with an Urhanu youth. I like the idea of the form the character is born in being having unmodified Traits and the other forms modifying from there. Something like...

        Urshul: Strength +2, Dexterity +1, Stamina +1, Size +2.
        Gauru: Strength +3, Stamina +2, Size +3, Species speed factor -3
        Dalu: Strength +1, Dexterity -1, Manipulation +2, Size +2, Species speed factor -3
        Hishu: Dexterity -1, Manipulation +3, Size +1, Species speed factor -3

        Just as an example. Obviously, Urhanu would have Size 4 and Species Factor 8 by default.

        EDIT: I do agree with Aspel that the free Animal Ken dot and Specialty in Wolves is unnecessary.
        Last edited by Charlaquin; 06-14-2016, 05:53 PM.


        Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
          I'm going to argue in favor of the name Were-Blooded as opposed to Dire-Wolves
          I'm sitting here looking on Wikipedia's page for Werewolves trying to see if there's a good term for a wolf that turns into a person, but I missed the obvious answer.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Aspel View Post
            I'm sitting here looking on Wikipedia's page for Werewolves trying to see if there's a good term for a wolf that turns into a person, but I missed the obvious answer.
            Well, D&D had the Wolfwere.


            Genius: the Transgression 2E is a thing that's being worked on.

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            • #7
              Charlaquin Why Manipulation +3 in hishu tho? Typo?

              Originally posted by malonkey1 View Post
              Well, D&D had the Wolfwere.
              Careful. Down that road leads Cease & Desist letters.

              Comment


              • #8
                *watches thread with interest*


                Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.

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                • #9
                  As for an appropriate name for these wolfsided Forsaken, I thought perhaps the term "great wolf" or "greater wolf" is perhaps more fitting, indicating that they see themselves as above ordinary wolves.


                  Looking through a Sumerian quick translate, I got the word "Rabu" or "Rabum to mean "great". So... converting that over can be say "Raburu", "Urabu" or perhaps other translations for it.


                  Mechs: Because even the Chronicles of Darkness needs robot fights.
                  DarkFrame: Crossover setting that puts Chronicles of Darkness in the far future that is Warframe.
                  Monarch: The Endless You are an alien ruler, charged with maintaining a people who you shape to suit your needs.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Almarck View Post
                    As for an appropriate name for these wolfsided Forsaken, I thought perhaps the term "great wolf" or "greater wolf" is perhaps more fitting, indicating that they see themselves as above ordinary wolves.


                    Looking through a Sumerian quick translate, I got the word "Rabu" or "Rabum to mean "great". So... converting that over can be say "Raburu", "Urabu" or perhaps other translations for it.
                    I think the First Tongue Urhanu works fine for them.


                    Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
                      I think the First Tongue Urhanu works fine for them.

                      Well, it's more I find it a little jarring to call them "Dire Wolves", but I suppose there's little point in contesting that. I'll go with whatever works I guess.


                      Mechs: Because even the Chronicles of Darkness needs robot fights.
                      DarkFrame: Crossover setting that puts Chronicles of Darkness in the far future that is Warframe.
                      Monarch: The Endless You are an alien ruler, charged with maintaining a people who you shape to suit your needs.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Almarck View Post
                        Well, it's more I find it a little jarring to call them "Dire Wolves", but I suppose there's little point in contesting that. I'll go with whatever works I guess.
                        Wait, are you talking about the equivalent of Wolf-Blooded born from wolf parents, or about werewolves with an Urshul Youth? The former is what Dataweaver suggested calling Dire Wolves and I proposed the alternative "Were-Blooded". The latter is already called Urhanu.


                        Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
                          Wait, are you talking about the equivalent of Wolf-Blooded born from wolf parents, or about werewolves with an Urshul Youth? The former is what Dataweaver suggested calling Dire Wolves and I proposed the alternative "Were-Blooded". The latter is already called Urhanu.

                          Eh, nevermind. My heads probably spinning from yard work in a hotsun.


                          Mechs: Because even the Chronicles of Darkness needs robot fights.
                          DarkFrame: Crossover setting that puts Chronicles of Darkness in the far future that is Warframe.
                          Monarch: The Endless You are an alien ruler, charged with maintaining a people who you shape to suit your needs.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
                            Wait, are you talking about the equivalent of Wolf-Blooded born from wolf parents, or about werewolves with an Urshul Youth? The former is what Dataweaver suggested calling Dire Wolves and I proposed the alternative “Were-Blooded”. The latter is already called Urhanu.
                            This.

                            I did not go with wolf stats as the baseline because I was trying to stay true to Charlaquin's notion that the wolf-born Uratha aren't wolves that turn into humans, but shapeshifters with wolf and human forms (who were raised as wolves). Thus, they are physically identical to human-born Uratha; the only difference lies in their upbringing, with human-born Uratha being intimately familiar with human society but having to learn about wolf society (through the Animal Ken skill) while wolf-born Uratha would be intimately familiar with wolf society but would have to learn about human society. Raised by Wolves is supposed to represent the “hasn't yet learned about human society”, and the free dot and specialty in Animal Ken is supposed to represent their familiarity with wolf society.


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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
                              This.

                              I did not go with wolf stats as the baseline because I was trying to stay true to Charlaquin's notion that the wolf-born Uratha aren't wolves that turn into humans, but shapeshifters with wolf and human forms (who were raised as wolves). Thus, they are physically identical to human-born Uratha; the only difference lies in their upbringing, with human-born Uratha being intimately familiar with human society but having to learn about wolf society (through the Animal Ken skill) while wolf-born Uratha would be intimately familiar with wolf society but would have to learn about human society. Raised by Wolves is supposed to represent the “hasn't yet learned about human society”, and the free dot and specialty in Animal Ken is supposed to represent their familiarity with wolf society.
                              That's a good point, my alternative stats kind of go against my own concept of urhanu as a difference in upbringing rather than a difference in "breed". The Raised by Wolves Condition and maybe some Were-Blooded (or whatever we decide to call them) Tells might be all that's needed to differentiate the Youths.
                              Last edited by Charlaquin; 06-14-2016, 08:31 PM.


                              Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

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