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Forsaken Youths

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  • Dataweaver
    started a topic Forsaken Youths

    Forsaken Youths

    This thread is a continuation of Breeds in Forsaken, incorporating ideas from The Pack and Dark Eras. The idea is to port something akin to WtA's Breeds into the metaphysics of WtF.

    First, these are Youths, not Breeds. Your parentage only matters in terms of what form you were born in and grew up in: a Hishu Youth was born to human parents in Hishu form, and grew up among humans; an Urhanu Youth was born to wolf parents in Urhanu form, and probably grew up among wolves. The notion here, first articulated by Charlaquin, is that Uratha aren't humans that can turn into wolves, they're shapeshifters that can take human form and wolf form: Hishu grew up locked in human form while Urhanu grew up locked in wolf form; but after the First Change, there are only lingering differences between them.

    The Hishu Youth is straightforward: it is what Werewolf: the Forsaken offers out of the box. No rules changes are needed.

    To facilitate the Urhanu Youth, I'm introducing a “wolf-blood” equivalent for wolves. For the time being, I'm referring to them as Dire Wolves. A Dire Wolf differs from a regular wolf in three ways:

    • First, and most significantly, it's a lot smarter: like the velociraptors from Jurassic Park, the Dire Wolf is capable of reasoned thought; it's sapient, not merely sentient. When creating a Dire Wolf, start by creating a regular character; then apply the effects of the Urhanu form to it, as well as the Urhanu Youth described below. In particular, Mental and Social Attributes are chosen normally: Dire Wolves tend to prioritize Wits and Resolve over Intelligence and Presence and Composure over Manipulation; but there are no requirements that they do so.
    • Second, the Dire Wolf has a Tell. Choose Tells from among the ones available for the Wolf-Bloods. Tells that normally grant access to Dalu form instead grant access to Urshal form, and vice versa. Likewise, a hypothetical Tell that would grant access to Urhanu form instead grants access to Hishu.
    • Finally, the Dire Wolf has access to suitable Wolf-Blooded Merits.

    Where do Dire Wolves come from? One theory is that they're descendants of the Firstborn. Another is that Luna sometimes chooses to bless wolves as she sometimes bestows her blessing on humans. As with Wolf-Blood humans, the truth is a mystery.

    The main inspiration for Dire Wolves is “Mowgli's Brothers”, from Rudyard Kipling's The Jungle Book.

    As mentioned before, the main reason for introducing Dire Wolves is to facilitate the Urhanu Youth. A werewolf with the Urhanu Youth was a Dire Wolf before the First Change. She gets a free dot in Animal Ken, with a free Specialty in Wolves (after all, she grew up as a wolf; comprehending how they think is second nature to her), along with the “no Primary Mental Skills” restriction and a Persistent Condition (“Raised by Wolves”) that replaces the -3 Unskilled penalty with automatic Chance Dice status until it's Resolved. Resolving this Condition involves spending enough Experiences to acclimate to human society, which should be at least as much as buying a Skill dot and maybe as much as buying an Attribute dot; I'm not sure which, but I'm leaning toward the latter. In the meantime, the Urhanu is picking up Beats from this Condition whenever her outsider perspective causes trouble, as per the normal rules for Conditions.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by Dataweaver; 06-14-2016, 04:51 PM.

  • The young man in the cafe
    replied
    thread necro because I came up with downsides for two of the wereblooded tells posted here, since the wolfblooded tells have downsides, it is only fair that the wereblooded should too.

    Mans best friend (Two Meals Away): Terry and Neil were right, and the reverse is true too. if a wereblooded with this tell accepts two meals in a row from a mortal, wolfblooded or Uratha, they become conditioned to obey them, at least until they miss two meals from that master in a row. a common belief among Uratha in certain parts of the world is that a if a wereblooded with a wolfblooded master goes through the first change, the wolfblooded master will go through it themselves in the same lunar cycle. How this might change the relationship between the two is often the subject of lewd jokes among said Uratha.

    Warg Tounge ( The Wittgenstein Effect): Just because the wereblooded can speak to humans doesn't always mean that the humans understand them. Wolves, even wereblooded, have a very different view of the world and will sometimes say something to a human that the human, if they resist the lunacy, they may misinterpret the message due to the words having a different meaning to them. When a human resists lunacy (or else a wolfblooded hears the message) causes by this tell, roll the humans Wits + Animal Ken. If the roll fails, the human realizes that they don't quite know what the wereblooded means. On a success, the human understands the basic gist of what the wereblooded means. On a dramatic failure, the human misinterprets the wereblooded in a catastrophic way (some Uratha think the dog that set off the Son of Sam was a wereblooded with both this tell and the Man's Best Friend tell, that fell victim to this effect) On a critical success, the human understands the wereblooded completely and gains insight into the lupine worldview doesn't need to roll for future communication with the wereblooded in question.

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  • Aspel
    replied
    And because I went to the trouble of making the header all fancy, but can only use four images: Raised By Wolves
    Your character lacks social graces, and just can't deal with the modern world.
    Whatever the cause, you take -3 to any Mental rolls, Social rolls besides Animal
    Ken or Intimidation, and Drive, Firearms, and Larceny rolls that you don't have a
    Specialty in. If you fail an Extended action, treat it as a Dramatic Failure unless
    you spend a point of Willpower. Your gruff nature also tends to irritate people,
    and in Social Maneuvering with characters outside of your pack, you have to deal
    with an additional Door so long as your behavior and outlook persist
    On the plus side, Intimidation and Animal Ken get 8-Again.
    Possible Sources: An abusive childhood, Breaking towards Spirit, spending a
    long time away from human allies. Being actually raised by wolves.
    Resolution: Working to integrate (back) into human society, perhaps through
    interacting with humans outside of the pack, or long term acclimation. The
    Condition may turn up again as a non-Persistent Condition in stressful times. A
    character may suppress--but not shed--the condition temporarily with meditation.
    Beat: Your upbringing causes you issues. You might miss social cues, or you
    may accidentally piss someone off, or your lack of ability to think clearly and use
    technology may set your pack back.


    Leave a comment:


  • Aspel
    replied
    Some Wereblooded Tells:

    Long ago, men and wolves were allies. Maybe it was due to abilities like this? Wereblooded with this Tell are still feral, but something about them makes them seem domesticated. Maybe it's a friendly bearing, or the way they look softer. They may even have the Small Frame merit.
    Boon: Your presence tends to go unnoticed, and when you are noticed, people tend to assume you're a husky or some other mixed breed. Rarely will there ever be panic that you might be a wild animal. Because of your approachable nature, anyone who actually does interact with you (perhaps looking for a collar you may or may not have) gains an additional Vice while in your presence of "sharing my secrets or troubles with this dog".

    Legends abound of talking animals, whether they're cunning serpents or little birdies whispering secrets. A wereblooded with this Tell embodies that legend.
    Boon: Whether it's harsh and guttural, oddly lyrical and feminine, or simply the kind of voice that would be utterly normal if only it weren't coming from the throat of a wolf, the character can speak in human tongue, though anyone who witnesses it is subject to Lunacy at +3. By spending a point of Willpower, you may also speak in First Tongue for the scene.

    Even though the wereblooded is Urhan, their eyes are unnatural and as intelligent as that of a hishu. They don't just look unusual, though, they allow the wereblooded to be far more perceptive than the average wolf.
    Boon: The character can distinguish colours, but beyond that, you may send your senses across the Gauntlet as described on page 95. Without any way to spend Essence, you may not be able to do so reflexively, but by spending a point of Willpower you can see any Spirits in Twilight.

    Ghostly and ephemeral white wolves are sometimes reported to stalk the heaths and moors of old, foggy places in the highlands. In actuality, it's wereblooded who have this Tell.
    Boon: By spending a point of Willpower, you can shift into Twilight, taking on the aspects of a Spirit. You can interact with Spirits, and see what happens outside of Twilight, but can no longer interact with the physical world. Spending another point of Willpower returns you to the physical world.

    Honestly, those might be a bit better than the ones in the book. A lot of the standard Wolfblooded Tells are uncontrollable or very narrowly useful.

    Leave a comment:


  • Charlaquin
    replied
    Originally posted by Ephsy View Post
    Charlaquin I asked above, why did you gave 'em +3 to Manipulation?
    Mostly I was trying to get the net bonuses to work out to be equivalent to those that most werewolves get from Urhan form. But after some more thought, I do agree with Dataweaver, alternate stats kind of go against my whole reason for wanting Urhanu.

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  • Ephsy
    replied
    Charlaquin I asked above, why did you gave 'em +3 to Manipulation?

    Leave a comment:


  • Charlaquin
    replied
    Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
    This.

    I did not go with wolf stats as the baseline because I was trying to stay true to Charlaquin's notion that the wolf-born Uratha aren't wolves that turn into humans, but shapeshifters with wolf and human forms (who were raised as wolves). Thus, they are physically identical to human-born Uratha; the only difference lies in their upbringing, with human-born Uratha being intimately familiar with human society but having to learn about wolf society (through the Animal Ken skill) while wolf-born Uratha would be intimately familiar with wolf society but would have to learn about human society. Raised by Wolves is supposed to represent the “hasn't yet learned about human society”, and the free dot and specialty in Animal Ken is supposed to represent their familiarity with wolf society.
    That's a good point, my alternative stats kind of go against my own concept of urhanu as a difference in upbringing rather than a difference in "breed". The Raised by Wolves Condition and maybe some Were-Blooded (or whatever we decide to call them) Tells might be all that's needed to differentiate the Youths.
    Last edited by Charlaquin; 06-14-2016, 08:31 PM.

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  • Dataweaver
    replied
    Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
    Wait, are you talking about the equivalent of Wolf-Blooded born from wolf parents, or about werewolves with an Urshul Youth? The former is what Dataweaver suggested calling Dire Wolves and I proposed the alternative “Were-Blooded”. The latter is already called Urhanu.
    This.

    I did not go with wolf stats as the baseline because I was trying to stay true to Charlaquin's notion that the wolf-born Uratha aren't wolves that turn into humans, but shapeshifters with wolf and human forms (who were raised as wolves). Thus, they are physically identical to human-born Uratha; the only difference lies in their upbringing, with human-born Uratha being intimately familiar with human society but having to learn about wolf society (through the Animal Ken skill) while wolf-born Uratha would be intimately familiar with wolf society but would have to learn about human society. Raised by Wolves is supposed to represent the “hasn't yet learned about human society”, and the free dot and specialty in Animal Ken is supposed to represent their familiarity with wolf society.

    Leave a comment:


  • Almarck
    replied
    Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
    Wait, are you talking about the equivalent of Wolf-Blooded born from wolf parents, or about werewolves with an Urshul Youth? The former is what Dataweaver suggested calling Dire Wolves and I proposed the alternative "Were-Blooded". The latter is already called Urhanu.

    Eh, nevermind. My heads probably spinning from yard work in a hotsun.

    Leave a comment:


  • Charlaquin
    replied
    Originally posted by Almarck View Post
    Well, it's more I find it a little jarring to call them "Dire Wolves", but I suppose there's little point in contesting that. I'll go with whatever works I guess.
    Wait, are you talking about the equivalent of Wolf-Blooded born from wolf parents, or about werewolves with an Urshul Youth? The former is what Dataweaver suggested calling Dire Wolves and I proposed the alternative "Were-Blooded". The latter is already called Urhanu.

    Leave a comment:


  • Almarck
    replied
    Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
    I think the First Tongue Urhanu works fine for them.

    Well, it's more I find it a little jarring to call them "Dire Wolves", but I suppose there's little point in contesting that. I'll go with whatever works I guess.

    Leave a comment:


  • Charlaquin
    replied
    Originally posted by Almarck View Post
    As for an appropriate name for these wolfsided Forsaken, I thought perhaps the term "great wolf" or "greater wolf" is perhaps more fitting, indicating that they see themselves as above ordinary wolves.


    Looking through a Sumerian quick translate, I got the word "Rabu" or "Rabum to mean "great". So... converting that over can be say "Raburu", "Urabu" or perhaps other translations for it.
    I think the First Tongue Urhanu works fine for them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Almarck
    replied
    As for an appropriate name for these wolfsided Forsaken, I thought perhaps the term "great wolf" or "greater wolf" is perhaps more fitting, indicating that they see themselves as above ordinary wolves.


    Looking through a Sumerian quick translate, I got the word "Rabu" or "Rabum to mean "great". So... converting that over can be say "Raburu", "Urabu" or perhaps other translations for it.

    Leave a comment:


  • ArcaneArts
    replied
    *watches thread with interest*

    Leave a comment:


  • Ephsy
    replied
    Charlaquin Why Manipulation +3 in hishu tho? Typo?

    Originally posted by malonkey1 View Post
    Well, D&D had the Wolfwere.
    Careful. Down that road leads Cease & Desist letters.

    Leave a comment:

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