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Hitting but getting zero extra successes

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  • Hitting but getting zero extra successes

    What happens if a PC is fighting somebody and scores enough successes to beat the target’s defense but no more.

    Target has a defense of 2 and I roll 2 successes to attack them. I have zero successes to spend on the inflict injury stunt and assuming I’m not using an automatic weapon then I can’t pay for any stunts so the attack does nothing, but isn’t a failure so I get no momentum.

  • #2
    By RAW, nothing happens. You hit but it does nothing.

    I’d be tempted to introduce a house rule that a ‘successful’ roll that needs to spend leftover successes to have any effect, but doesn’t have any leftover to spend, earns one Momentum.


    Writer. Developer. WoD | CofD | The Trinity Continuum 19 books and counting...

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Bunyip View Post
      By RAW, nothing happens. You hit but it does nothing.

      I’d be tempted to introduce a house rule that a ‘successful’ roll that needs to spend leftover successes to have any effect, but doesn’t have any leftover to spend, earns one Momentum.

      I'm thinking that in that circumstance you could inflict a light status condition on the opponent, but I suppose giving a Momentum can also work.

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      • #4
        I'd grant a consolation for it, most likely Momentum. It works narratively, since you could be seen as softening up the opponent or searching for a weak spot in their defenses. It also takes a way the sting of succeeding but having no effect.

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        • #5
          According to the combat roll example on p. 101 this is actually a miss. But I'm trying to get that clarified by the devs.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Bunyip View Post
            By RAW, nothing happens. You hit but it does nothing.

            I’d be tempted to introduce a house rule that a ‘successful’ roll that needs to spend leftover successes to have any effect, but doesn’t have any leftover to spend, earns one Momentum.

            I think based on my read by RAW, if the target had no soft armor and if the attack was a Close Combat attack they could use Inflict Damage because it costs successes equal to the amount of soft armor.

            I do find it confusing that close combat Inflict Damage appears to cost zero+armor while ranged and thrown costs 1+armor and all three cost 0+armor in Scion. I know some of the differences between the two variants of Storypath are to address the differences in theme, but this is an example of where playing more than one Storypath game is going to be frustrating because there are these little differences between fundamental building blocks of the core rules which are supposed to be the same underlying set of rules. We are interested in both Trinity and Scion, but I have a hard enough time getting my players to learn rules...they will never keep these differences straight and that is going to frustrate them.

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            • #7
              I looked closer at both games. I think the difference between the 2 games is in Trinity all weapons have an enhancement bonus—even fists. In Scion weapons are 0 unless tags increase it. This means barring armor that hitting defense with 0 extra successes means you actually can buy an inflict injury stunt.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by werlynn View Post
                I looked closer at both games. I think the difference between the 2 games is in Trinity all weapons have an enhancement bonus—even fists. In Scion weapons are 0 unless tags increase it. This means barring armor that hitting defense with 0 extra successes means you actually can buy an inflict injury stunt.

                I can see that. Do we know if Trinity Close Combat's Inflict Damage only costing the opponent's armor as opposed to 1 + opponent's armor is an error?

                Forgot about the auto-enhancement on weapons in Trinity. Once a couple Storypath games are finalized and released it might be worth it for someone to put together a cheat guide for differences in the implementation of the core Storypath system between the different games. Differences bound up in the different types of character templates I have no problem keeping track of, but there are a bunch of little differences in the core game mechanics (like weapons in trinity having +1 enhancement while weapons in Scion not and some weapon or combat tags/stunts having different costs or different effects but the same names) that could be easily overlooked and might throw things off when switching from one game to another.

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                • #9
                  It doesn't need to be an error. The 1 free enhancement doesn't let you buy a second injury on its own, but it does let you do fancy unarmed combat tricks which seems appropriate.

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                  • #10
                    I've brought this thread to the developers' collective attention, and we'll roll it into the errata. I'm pretty sure all instances of Inflict Damage should be zero cost, but it was a late-stage change, so it's possible the team missed a couple things. I'll chat with them about it. Thanks for bringing it up!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by eddyfate View Post
                      I've brought this thread to the developers' collective attention, and we'll roll it into the errata. I'm pretty sure all instances of Inflict Damage should be zero cost, but it was a late-stage change, so it's possible the team missed a couple things. I'll chat with them about it. Thanks for bringing it up!
                      Thanks Eddy. This 0-cost interpretation is supported by Core p. 124 - "The first benefit is soft armor. Typically, after a character has successfully struck another, they can automatically inflict damage by purchasing the “Inflict Damage” Stunt. Soft armor forces the at-tacker to spend additional successes (equal to the rating of the armor) to cause injury."

                      (Emphasis by me)


                      Writer. Developer. WoD | CofD | The Trinity Continuum 19 books and counting...

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