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Psions and Scale

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  • Psions and Scale

    When does a psion apply their scale? Do they apply it when hurling a blast of fire or electricity at a neutral? When using psi to read their mind or track them through tunnels on Mars? Any time they activate a psi power or just on skill rolls modified by a psi power? What if they’ve used vitakinesis to boost their defense attribute? Do they then get to also take advantage of their scale on all their defensive actions or did their scale already count towards activating the power so they don’t double dip?

  • #2
    It’s up to the Storyguide to decide if/when scale applies, and players to argue for it if they think it’s valid.

    Psionic powers were written with the view that scale doesn’t apply and the rolls don’t gain Dramatic or Narrative benefit in normal usage. (Unless a power specifically gives it.)

    Edit to add: When we say it's up to players/SGs, use some narrative logic in deciding. Powers weren't written to use scale by default, but if a biokinetic or vitakinetic enter a physical contest against a neutral, consider giving them scale Enhancement as their psi subtly enhances their body to give a bit of edge. If a telepath or clairsentient enters a mental or tactical contest, maybe apply scale as they subconsciously pick up on their opponent's next move. Same with a teleporter needing to navigate a maze or find the quickest path through an obstacle course. Or an electrokinetic trying to be unnoticeable in some limited shadow. All of these things would be dramatically appropriate, depending on the opponents and the story.
    Last edited by Bunyip; 12-17-2018, 04:10 AM.


    Writer. Developer. WoD | CofD | The Trinity Continuum 19 books and counting...

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Bunyip View Post
      Powers weren't written to use scale by default
      Interesting. I thought the idea of having proxies (or any >5 psi character) being tier 3 instead of tier 2 (<6 psi) was specifically put in place to enact that kind of use of scale.

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      • #4
        It seems weird to list psions and proxies as higher tier than neutrals but then not have their scale apply in the one way their actually superior to neutrals.

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        • #5
          Not really? Scale is more about showing the difference in fields where both ‘sides’ otherwise can compete. I can run, you have a motorbike. You could have scale for speed. I can do math with paper and pencil, you have a computer. You could have scale for rolls to get to the solution.

          I can shoot lightning from my fingers, you’re a human. I don’t really need scale. I’m shooting lightning at you.


          Writer. Developer. WoD | CofD | The Trinity Continuum 19 books and counting...

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Bunyip View Post
            I can shoot lightning from my fingers, you’re a human. I don’t really need scale. I’m shooting lightning at you.
            This just gave me the laugh I've needed all day.

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            • #7
              The one place I'd consider including Scale with Psions would be with technology: not just “I'm on foot, you're on a motorbike”; but also bio-tech that boosts an Aptitude. I'm thinking in particular of teleporters and interstellar travel; but I could see the concept applied elsewhere.


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              • #8
                Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
                The one place I'd consider including Scale with Psions would be with technology: not just “I'm on foot, you're on a motorbike”; but also bio-tech that boosts an Aptitude. I'm thinking in particular of teleporters and interstellar travel; but I could see the concept applied elsewhere.
                I don’t follow what you mean. Could you give us a couple of examples?


                Writer. Developer. WoD | CofD | The Trinity Continuum 19 books and counting...

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                • #9
                  I could see something like that...
                  Like a psi gauntlet that grants +1 scale instead of bonus enhancement. Kinda like the heavy weapons tag.

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                  • #10
                    Or a Leviathan-like ship which uses a teleporter as its interstellar engine by increasing the scale of the teleport.

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                    • #11
                      Or Mass Effect like Techs compared to Biotics...

                      https://www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/...ch_vs_biotics/


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bunyip View Post
                        Not really? Scale is more about showing the difference in fields where both ‘sides’ otherwise can compete. I can run, you have a motorbike. You could have scale for speed. I can do math with paper and pencil, you have a computer. You could have scale for rolls to get to the solution.

                        I can shoot lightning from my fingers, you’re a human. I don’t really need scale. I’m shooting lightning at you.
                        The problem here is hand guns are scale 2 spacificly to show the difference I. Damage out put between a fist and a gun. The scale difference not only makes doing damage easier it also ups the total number of times you can add the damage tag to an attack. So without a scale difference you can buy damage tag once and then the critical damage tag. So without psi powers being a higher scale they damage is limited to fiat damage vs a gun that can possibly kill in one shot a average person.

                        Personally I’d easily say a laser blast, lightning from fingers or throwing fire balls, is on a higher scale.

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                        • #13
                          Talents have a way to add scale, but I guess that’s because Talents are better at doing baseline feats momentarily superhumanly well than Psions are - Psion have their powers instead.

                          Then there’s Novas who are probably going to get built in Scale they don’t even have to invoke somehow like Talents do.


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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Fuzzykuma View Post

                            The problem here is hand guns are scale 2 spacificly to show the difference I.
                            I’ve never seen anything about guns raising scale automatically.

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                            • #15
                              As a shift to what I’ve said earlier, the example under ‘Combat and Scale’ on p.109-110 in Trinity Core pretty much says psions gain the Scale Enhancement bonus when fighting Tier 1 humans. They’ll also suffer this when fighting Tier 3 novas and Aberrants.


                              Writer. Developer. WoD | CofD | The Trinity Continuum 19 books and counting...

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