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  • #61
    The best idea I have heard in sometime. Please update us.

    Best regards



    Roleplaying not Rollplaying or Ruleplaying
    Current Focus
    Storypath & Storypath to Run CoD, VtR, WtF, MtA
    Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition

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    • #62
      Graylion I’m moving this over from the ‘Ask the Devs’ thread because it’s already started a back-and-forth there which Rich has asked us to avoid.

      Originally posted by Graylion View Post
      I was pondering a statement/question which I could not bring into focus until I read this. My initial reaction to Scale 1 (+2) vs Scale 2 (+4) = Scale 0 vs Scale 1 (+2), is do not adjust but stick with Scale 1 (+2) vs Scale 2 (+4).

      Now here is why

      All generic powers so don't read into it.

      Super Blaster Psi Villian hurls a psycho kinetic blast wave (Scale 3) out medium range and caught in the blast are our Hero Sunshine slamming a telekinetic barrier up (Scale 1) giving some protection, he is fine, his tech sidekick "the mouse" is unconscious, his hover car is totaled, but the innocent bystanders (Scale 0) he could not save will haunt him forever.

      The other hover cars scattered and in pieces, glasscrete building fronts smashed in sparking with the ghosts of now useless flickering holo ads.

      The scene fades to black as our hero stands in a circle of calm compared to the carnage surrounding him. He vows his revenge.

      My point is everything was hit with a Scale 3 power, I feel like doing any math to ease the transaction would complicate the relationship for others or lessen it for some. I would also not want to figure ok our hero was hit by scale 2 (3-1), bystanders hit by scale 3, and so on. One attack, many Defenses. Aside from exalted many dice this it did very well for mass effects, one attack many defenses.

      Does what I am trying to convey make any sense?
      I think I can see what you’re saying, but I also think you’re trying to create a problem that doesn’t exist.

      Looking at your example, and just ignoring (for the moment) whether powers work the way you’ve described, there’s little to no reason to do the amount of dice rolling you seem to think needs to be done.

      Note that I’m assuming you’re the Storyguide in this scenario and that players exist for some other characters.

      First, who is important in the scene? Super Blaster Psi Villain is the bad guy (and the SG character), Hero is the good guy (presumably player controlled). Sidekick (player) is probably important, nothing else is, really. (Important to the narrative, yes, but not to the system.)

      You roll Villain’s attack, it’s Scale 3, so add 6 Enhancement and total your successes.

      As player’s characters, both Hero and Sidekick decide their defences and roll, as they’d do normally anyway. Hero pops up the shield - since you’ve said it’s Scale 1, and this isn’t simply a Resistance attribute scenario, give him 2 Enhancement. You haven’t mentioned Sidekick, so I’ll assume he just gets whatever defence roll he gets. Through this, both establish their Defense totals.

      Villain’s attack appears to be area effect and applies its successes to everyone in the zone. Subtract Hero’s defence from the total and purchase stunts with whatever remains. Do the same for SIdekick.

      That’s the math done. Everything else is narrative. Unless something strange is going on, the civilians are extras and can’t withstand the blast. You decide what happens to them. They either all die, some survive, or all survive. No math. The building suffers some damage. No math. The hover car is totalled. No math. (If the hover car is an important artifact or something, it becomes some math but not much more.)

      From what I see in your example, the excess of math if a fallacy. It’s no more than any other scene in any other game where you have a villain NPC vs two PCs. You roll the attack, they roll the defence. Job done.

      If this still doesn’t answer your question/concern, then no, I didn’t understand what you were asking from your example.
      Last edited by Bunyip; 03-22-2019, 06:17 PM.


      Writer. Developer. World of Darkness | Chronicles of Darkness | The Trinity Continuum

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      • #63
        Thank you for moving this, I realized to late.



        Roleplaying not Rollplaying or Ruleplaying
        Current Focus
        Storypath & Storypath to Run CoD, VtR, WtF, MtA
        Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Graylion View Post
          Thank you for moving this, I realized to late.
          You’re welcome, no problem.

          Thinking further on your example and my post, a way to look at it is that Scale doesn’t have to be used for comparative levels in scenes where that doesn’t make senes, as you have actual numerical bonuses to use that takes this into account.

          What’s I mean is, if the scene in your example was Villain (Scale 3) vs Hero (Scale 1), for simplicity I’d probably give Hero straight dice rolls and Villain +4 Enhancement for the Scale difference. (On applicable powers - Scale in Trinity Continuum isn’t a blanket thing you apply to everything just because a person exists.)

          In a scene like you’ve set, where you have Scale 0, Scale 1, Scale 3, just give everyone bonuses depending on their Scale. The bonuses are defined in the rule book, it gives a few extra successes, usually in single figures, and it’s very simple math to then compare or subtract what you need.

          In short, when differences in Scale come up, either directly compare and hand wave (especially with NPCs - Scale 3 Blast murders a lot of Scale 0 bystanders), or apply the bonuses stipulated in the rules. (+2 Enhancement per level for Dramatic, x level for Narrative or +level for Narrative Resistance.)

          Does that help?
          Last edited by Bunyip; 03-22-2019, 06:38 PM.


          Writer. Developer. World of Darkness | Chronicles of Darkness | The Trinity Continuum

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          • #65
            I agree with your assessment on all of that, I could handwave everything except the main villian and hero. The question or focus of the post was modifying or not modifying the Scale relative to the central characters, extras and scenery. So the rules recommend that a Scale 3 vs a Scale 1 is considered a Scale 2 vs Scale 0. It would seem this is to ease the math or enhancement successes.

            Here is the Scion section I am referencing:

            When applying Scale to two opposing forces or individuals, compare each character’s Scale and
            then apply the benefits of the difference to whomever has the higher Scale. For example, a car racing after a human receives Enhancement 4 due to its roaring speed (Scale 2), but when it chases a cowardly centaur (Scale 1), the difference in Scale is only one, so it only receives 2 bonus successes.

            This just seems an extra step, wasn't sure if it's goi g to stay or just a recommended option. My gut in the above examples is to leave their Scale as is an add the enhancements.

            Now back to my example.

            My point was that if I do that it changes the interaction of relative scale. Because the villian used a scale 3 power, not a modified down for ease of math scale 2 power.

            Also please keep in mind this was just a point for discussion, not an oh my gosh terrible item. I was hoping to here feedback from anyone who may have the same or differing ideas on it.

            Best regards.



            Roleplaying not Rollplaying or Ruleplaying
            Current Focus
            Storypath & Storypath to Run CoD, VtR, WtF, MtA
            Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition

            Comment


            • #66
              Just saw your post and you are saying the same thing I am.

              Great talk. I am so excited for Story path.

              Best regards.



              Roleplaying not Rollplaying or Ruleplaying
              Current Focus
              Storypath & Storypath to Run CoD, VtR, WtF, MtA
              Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition

              Comment


              • #67
                I’m glad we’re on the same page. One thing I think does need to be clarified:

                Originally posted by Graylion View Post
                Here is the Scion section I am referencing:
                Please note that Scion’s use of Scale *does not always equal* Trinity Continuum’s use. Many things are similar, not everything.

                The final edits for Trinity Continuum will hopefully be out soon and we can then all be referring to the same material. 🙂
                Last edited by Bunyip; 03-22-2019, 09:33 PM.


                Writer. Developer. World of Darkness | Chronicles of Darkness | The Trinity Continuum

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by impernious View Post
                  Hey guys. I've been monitoring this thread for a bit and we did make some changes to the core to clarify Scale better and to help make it clear that Tier does not automatically translate to Scale. I'm wondering if a blog post explaining how Scale works in the Trinity Continuum (vs Scion because it is different between the two games) would be helpful? At least until the books get released with the updated information.
                  Are you still planning to create a blog post like this?

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by werlynn View Post

                    Are you still planning to create a blog post like this?
                    Here it is:

                    http://theonyxpath.com/storypaths-scale/


                    Danielle Lauzon, Requiem Developer, Storypath Guru, freelance writer

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