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Superscience without the Big Three?

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  • Eldagusto
    started a topic Superscience without the Big Three?

    Superscience without the Big Three?

    So can you actually get super science without one of the Big Three, Flux/Psi/Quantum?

    Like in Psion even normal humans have super science compared to modern times but they also were guided by a history of prominent Novas, Psychics bolstered by Alien Conspiracies, and secret Talents.

    The books say aliens have inevitably gone towards Psi or Quantum, with some spatterings of Flux.

    But what if an Alien species ignored all those? What if it was just rare but some civilizations do sometimes not tap into Psi or Quantum? Or is it Flux is always assumed to be with genius and groundbreakers?

    I mean is this kind of what that Alien Coalition is, except they are more ex-Psi. But they use mundane science to make genetic modifications.

    So what about just really advanced super science?

    If I made an Alien AI race do they have to be one of the big three?

    And what about multiversal beings like in Adventure where other universes temporarily overlapped, what about another universe with no Quantum or Psi as we know it but that still has super science or even Super Beings?

    Like what if some Marvel Mutants were stranded in the Trinity Continuum, they aren’t Quantum, they could just use the mechanics. Or are you saying they would retroactively become Quantum Beings?

  • Tritoninvestigator
    replied
    Ooooh, man: as a longtime Mage: The Ascension fan, the idea of, for lack of a better term, "Genius creep" is VERY intriguing!

    And I've always felt that in TC:A, the Coalition is the best example of this; every tech they have (including their hyper-advanced gen-engineering) is just a result of time and experimentation (well, and theft).

    I guess another, less hostile , example would be Qin-tech.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eldagusto
    replied
    Just read that section yeah, Science is science and basically with advanced enough science you can do most things, including things we don't know how to do know like Antigrav.

    So applying this to games I feel using Alien Tech could be super advanced coretech.

    And what do you need to shift the Paradigm, if a super advanced Coretech lands from the Future or from another Galaxy or Universe, you can reverse engineer it with effort even though your history isn't the one who developed it.

    And it gets me to thinking Magic could just be a far offshoot Scientific Quantum tech. Basically Novas may have developed how to hack the universe using resonance and rhyme and sympathy and contagion. So another Nova Culture made mystical Qtech, or even an alternate Earth. Not something to tap for Vanilla games but oh well explore for other games.

    And if say Thor Arrives from another universe, you have two major options, say he works off of Quantum or say he works off of something else.

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  • Eldagusto
    replied
    Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
    Actually, TC:Ab not only lets you leverage Q-Tech into nova-tech; it also lets you convert nova-tech into core-tech. With enough time and effort, you can go from “only I can use it” to “only I can make it; but anyone can use it” to “anyone can make or use it”. Iron Man armor to mass-produced VARGs.
    Ahaaaa seee now that is much more Ironmanish to my liking!

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  • Dataweaver
    replied
    Actually, TC:Ab not only lets you leverage Q-Tech into nova-tech; it also lets you convert nova-tech into core-tech. With enough time and effort, you can go from “only I can use it” to “only I can make it; but anyone can use it” to “anyone can make or use it”. Iron Man armor to mass-produced VARGs.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mateus Luz
    replied
    In the Inspired Science items list there are freezing rays, hud contacts, and things like that. Actually any Q-tech can be turned into Nova tech, but costs much more than the Q-tech version, and there are aeon biotech that make neutrals capable of using psionic powers.

    So, it’s possible to create lots of things that are really impossible with regular or advanced tech, but it’s not as easy or as versatile as the powered ones.

    Leave a comment:


  • johntfs
    replied
    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    So what’s the difference between say a talent making an advanced rifle in the revolutionary war and a bleeding edge sniper rifle? It would be all around crappier but it could do a few things better like perfectly collapse into a cane with a twist?
    Advanced science would be somebody who in the late 1700s came up with the percussion cap and used it to make August Francotte's pinfire revolver. It's a real world thing using real world technology that's just... advanced for the time period. Inspired science might be somebody coming up with Francotte's revolver in the 1700s and also giving it the range and damage of a rifled musket that also somehow turns into a knife or something. Powered science would be the revolver knife with a sight that lets you see through walls and the bullet ignore the walls to hit targets on the other side.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eldagusto
    replied
    So what’s the difference between say a talent making an advanced rifle in the revolutionary war and a bleeding edge sniper rifle? It would be all around crappier but it could do a few things better like perfectly collapse into a cane with a twist?

    Leave a comment:


  • Dataweaver
    replied
    TC pp.90–91:
    Advanced Science is technology that leapfrogs over modern-day capabilities and lands step beyond tomorrow. It's mundane, but devices and gadgets of this caliber would be 10 or more years away if left to non-Talent scientists.

    Devices that fall under Inspired Science can only be built and created by Inspired minds, but can be used by anyone. … while Inspired Science can also improve upon existing tech, devices created at this level often enhance a Talent's pre-existing abilities or mimic the effects of Gifts.
    So no; Inspired Science is not just advanced mundane tech. You can't do as much with it as you can with Powered Science, which is the sole domain of psychics and superhumans; but it still goes beyond mundane tech, even Advanced Science.

    If you have access to the manuscript previews for TC:Ab, you'll note that it breaks Superscience up into three types: core-tech, nova-tech, and Q-tech. These corresponds to Advanced Science, Inspired Science, and Powered Science; and this in turn means that in the Aberrant setting, Talents ought to be able to devise and build nova-tech; just not Q-tech.

    In the Æon setting, most Biotech would correspond to Inspired Science, save only for Aberrants not being able to use it: baselines and Talents are able to use it just fine, and I'd say that Talents would be able to make it, too. Some biotech, specifically biotech with the Super-science tag, counts as Powered Science and is off limits to everyone except psiads and psions.
    Last edited by Dataweaver; 01-17-2020, 10:47 AM.

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  • Mateus Luz
    replied
    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    Wait do you are saying Talent tech is just advanced mundane tech? So anything they build anyone could also build if smart enough?
    No. Talents can create Inspired science items, but not Powered Science Items. In Aberrant terms, they can build equivalent to Nova-tech but not equivalent to Q-tech.
    Explaining better, all the inventions a Talent create can be used by any person and require no inspiration/psi/quantum spending.
    If you check In Media Res, the story about the thieves stealing wondrous items, those are powered “talent” items, as they require spending inspiration to work.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eldagusto
    replied
    Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post

    Technically, there is no Flux energy technology. Talents can only improve and advance traditional science, they cant build powered tech of any kind.

    Quantum and Psi tech are multually excluding, what means no way to make a dual energy tech. But you can probably build the same things using one or the other, and during Adventure Stalwart could operate psi itens and vice versa, but a nova can’t operate biotech (aeon age supertech), neither psions can power novatech (at least not the ones that need use of quantum points).

    Of course there is no explanation for the Hammersmith engine, what can mean it is a dual energy or a flux energy, and you could adjust it to be more psi or more quantum, according to the build. Have no idea, you probably need to ask Michael or Sarah, as they reproduced it latter...
    Wait do you are saying Talent tech is just advanced mundane tech? So anything they build anyone could also build if smart enough?

    Leave a comment:


  • Mateus Luz
    replied
    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    To what extent can you apply the three types of super science to a single device,tech,project?
    Technically, there is no Flux energy technology. Talents can only improve and advance traditional science, they cant build powered tech of any kind.

    Quantum and Psi tech are multually excluding, what means no way to make a dual energy tech. But you can probably build the same things using one or the other, and during Adventure Stalwart could operate psi itens and vice versa, but a nova can’t operate biotech (aeon age supertech), neither psions can power novatech (at least not the ones that need use of quantum points).

    Of course there is no explanation for the Hammersmith engine, what can mean it is a dual energy or a flux energy, and you could adjust it to be more psi or more quantum, according to the build. Have no idea, you probably need to ask Michael or Sarah, as they reproduced it latter...

    Leave a comment:


  • Eldagusto
    replied
    To what extent can you apply the three types of super science to a single device,tech,project?

    Leave a comment:


  • Mateus Luz
    replied
    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    So the weird alternate reality Zones and weird entities that dwelled within, like Vampires and Argata, that we’re in Adventure, they weren’t powered by Quantum Psi or Flux right? Like just popped in because of Flux but they were mechanically uncomplicated Beings because they used powers from their own native universes right? Or am I mistaken and they were beings of Flux, Psi and Quantum?
    Correct. They came from other dimensions and worked on their reality standards. So a mutant from Marvel that end up in Aberrant will not be detected as a Nova, but can do lots of crazy because of his biology. But he will be temporary on the universe, in the new Spider Man Spiderverse move style.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eldagusto
    replied
    So the weird alternate reality Zones and weird entities that dwelled within, like Vampires and Argata, that we’re in Adventure, they weren’t powered by Quantum Psi or Flux right? Like just popped in because of Flux but they were mechanically uncomplicated Beings because they used powers from their own native universes right? Or am I mistaken and they were beings of Flux, Psi and Quantum?

    Leave a comment:

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