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Playing Normal Mortals and not Talents

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  • #16
    So I guess I mean scale? Always so co fusing for me.

    The Doyen seemed to range from weaker Doyen Tier -
    3 to Tier 4 for more potent ones.


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    • #17
      One thing is to have a superpowered Nova, firing quantum blasts and controlling the weather, that’s a thing that happened because of high quantum flux events. But it’s possible to have a Stalwart that erupted (probably in a very subtle way) out of the Hammersmith reverse period.

      Officially there were no novas eruptions before Nday (besides Mal), but it is suggested (at least on 1e) that at least a few of the Teragen most significant members were erupted before N day, for no special reason or high quantum exposure.

      Novas can apear at any time, but usually are rare and low powered, with their numbers and scale of power increasing during certain periods. Psiads in general are more common than novas, but far less powerful and lacking a eruption (novas change at a point, Psiads are more gradual).

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post
        Officially there were no novas eruptions before Nday (besides Mal), but it is suggested (at least on 1e) that at least a few of the Teragen most significant members were erupted before N day, for no special reason or high quantum exposure.
        Possibly not entirely true. Both Pax and Scripture were hinted at being pre N-day novas.

        Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post
        Novas can apear at any time, but usually are rare and low powered, with their numbers and scale of power increasing during certain periods. Psiads in general are more common than novas, but far less powerful and lacking a eruption (novas change at a point, Psiads are more gradual).
        Agreed. Psiads are more common in periods where there are practically no novas, and significantly less common in the nova era.


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        • #19
          Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
          So I guess I mean scale?.
          No, you meant Tier 3 Talent. Because normal Talents are already Tier 2 Talents.


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          • #20
            Basically I’m saying think of Mycroft was a Talent, and talents cant hop splat into Nova, he would have developed Gifts/Edges of higher caliber to make him competitive with Proxies. And they would be subtle so people would only be able to tell he was insanely smart.


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            • #21
              Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
              Basically I’m saying think of Mycroft was a Talent, and talents cant hop splat into Nova, he would have developed Gifts/Edges of higher caliber to make him competitive with Proxies. And they would be subtle so people would only be able to tell he was insanely smart.
              But he can be a Stalwart that erupted subtlety when he was young (rare but possible) with Mega Intelligence...

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
                Basically I’m saying think of Mycroft was a Talent, and talents cant hop splat into Nova, he would have developed Gifts/Edges of higher caliber to make him competitive with Proxies. And they would be subtle so people would only be able to tell he was insanely smart.
                Superhuman “predict the World Wars and Indian Independence at the turn of the century” Intelligence is definitely more eximorph than any tier of Talent, IMO. Super-scaled Attirbutes are Eximorphs niche.


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                • #23
                  Predicting the future is very much the sort of thing I'd expect of an uber-Talent: after all, the whole thing about Talents is that they have a unique relationship with Time. For regular Talents, this takes the form of subconscious awareness of parallel timelines and the ability to tap into them; but I could see a higher-Tier version of them having an almost literal precognitive ability — only, like regular Talents, it might manifest subtly and in a manner that can be confused with being impossibly good at what you do.

                  That is, it isn't Mycroft's Intelligence that's amped up to incredible levels; it's his Humanities skill that gets the boost.

                  Uber-Talents are a character type that hasn't been explored much in fiction; but there are a few examples here and there. From comics, you have Peter Cannon the Thunderbolt, and his expy Ozymandius of the Watchmen; early versions of Wonder Woman were like this, with an emphasis on her incredible feats being the result of Amazon Training rather than Gifts of the Gods; wuxia works like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon feature characters who achieve impossible feats through exotic training rather than superhuman attributes.

                  In gaming, the Solars from Exalted represent a similar concept as an uber-Talent, though the former channel Essence to achieve impossible feats while the latter would channel Flux.


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                  • #24
                    Wuxia is the ultimate Talent example, you can pick many of the gifts and edges to build them, from jumping over houses to running over water, and kicking an entire troop before they can react.

                    Unfortunately there are not many examples of tier 3 talents. On 1e is described that besides time travel, Max could move faster than it would be possible for a normal person by changing the flow of time. If we use this idea, you can imagine the speed force from Flash as a kind of flux for a tier 3 speedster stile talent. Dimension jumping is another tier 3 option that would be fun, even more if you get lost and need to look for your way home between the Cooldowns of your power (Sliders?). Time travel have 3 options, one you jump to a different time (the more common of them), the second you see the time passing around you (in the way it apear no Time Machine movie) and the 3rd is the most fun of them for game terms, that is you jump to your future or past self, on the X-men days of future past style, or the Butterfly effect, but maybe going to the future instead of past (this is the one I prefere for a Talent, but Max do the first).

                    Back to Mycroft, if you use the idea of “Mega Skill” on Humanities it is nice, but you can have Mega Intelligence with a enhancement focused on Humanities if you follow the 1e aberrant rules. If you go on the Adventure Style you can have the 6th dot on the skill but not on the attribute, and having a knack for probabilities calculation is a good option, but there is no knack on this style on the books (you could create one with not many uses for details but good to predict the big picture).
                    Last edited by Mateus Luz; 02-12-2019, 04:55 PM.

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                    • #25
                      The point is that while a Nova can simulate a “Mega-Skill” using a Scaled-up Attribute and what Aberrant 1e called an Enhancement (shall we call it an Augmentation for now? Because “Enhancement” has a different meaning in 2e), that doesn't mean that it isn't something that an uber-Talent shouldn't be able to do. Heck, your own “Speed Force” example is something that could be handled through Scaled-up Dexterity and a selection of “Speed Force Augmentations”; but that doesn't stop it from being a viable option for Tier three uber-Talents, too.

                      As for Wuxia, I'm not seeing any Gifts in TC that would replicate those sorts of feats — which isn't surprising, because the Gifts in TC are intended to be more subtle that Wuxia stunts tend to be. Which is not to say that Wuxia-style feats aren't appropriate for Flux-empowered characters; rather, they're beyond the bounds of a Tier Two Flux-empowered character. Going back to Exalted as an example, most Essence 1 Charms could probably be suitably adapted as Gifts for TC's Talents, if they haven't been already; Essence 2 and maybe 3 Charms would be a good source for “Tier Three Gifts”, and higher-Essence Charms could only be suitable for Tier Four or higher uber-Talents, if such beings are even possible.

                      That doesn't exclude the possibility of “Speed Force”-like Gifts such as the ones you suggested; but neither do “Speed Force” Gifts exclude the possibility of Gifts that are adapted from Essence 2+ Exalted Charms.


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                      • #26
                        Pretty Damned Fast, On the Head of a Pin and Swan Dive. Pick the three and you just need to run around, jumping and landing on tops of threes, as long you are running you can ignore any barrier, including bodies of water... you can land on places as thin as you wish without loosing balance (you may fall, but it’s at least a few successes easier) and jumping from the top of the building can be slow enough to not get hurt if you have some way to slow down.
                        Matter of read it with the effect in mind...

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                        • #27
                          Eh. I hate the “read it with the effect in mind” approach: that way lies Hero System.

                          More generally, the whole concept of Talents, as described in TC, is that nothing they do is technically impossible for a regular human. It can be and often is very very improbable, especially when they pull off a given feat with regularity; but there's nothing about what they do that you can point to and say “that violates the laws of physics” (or whatever equivalent laws apply to the mental or social arenas, if that's where a given Gift lies).

                          But Wuxia goes beyond improbable into downright impossible territory: you get people running sideways on walls, walking on tree branches that aren't strong enough to support their weight or across snow without leaving footprints, floating through the air along trajectories that gravity normally wouldn't allow, and so on. And that's just in relation to Athletics (which, admittedly, is where most Wuxia is focused). But more generally, Talents should be able to bend the rules, while uber-Talents should be able to break them.


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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post
                            Pretty Damned Fast, On the Head of a Pin and Swan Dive. Pick the three and you just need to run around, jumping and landing on tops of threes, as long you are running you can ignore any barrier, including bodies of water... you can land on places as thin as you wish without loosing balance (you may fall, but it’s at least a few successes easier) and jumping from the top of the building can be slow enough to not get hurt if you have some way to slow down.
                            Matter of read it with the effect in mind...
                            As written Talents are not supposed to be perceivable in-setting as overtly defying the laws of physics. Athletics Gifts make you Parker from Leverage, not Yu Shu Lien from Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.

                            I’m all for building a Wuxia setting off Talents, but it’ll take its own additional rules where on top of the normal Talent Gifts, martial arts styles open up overtly superhuman abilities.

                            I’d love a book that presented a pure Wuxia setting, and then discussed transplanting Wuxia Martial Artists Into other settings, particularly Adventure! (With an eye toward exploring and deconstructions Yellow Peril tropes)
                            Last edited by glamourweaver; 02-13-2019, 03:35 AM.


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                            • #29
                              There is one old AD&D book, Dragon Fist I think is the name, and it is for Wuxia games. After reading thu it that’s are a few techniques that are really obvious (it says things like you can walk on snow without leaving footprints), but most of the effects are pure description and zero extra rules.

                              You can make a bullet point moment on the best Matrix Stile just by describing how hard it is to hit the guy, or just ignore it and say the other missed... also, wuxia is not about slow moving martial artists, they are not flying (usually) they are jumping and moving so fast they don’t fall fast enought to matter. They don’t need to be super light to land on water, just really fast. Otherwise they are not kicking 100 asses per scene.

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                              • #30
                                The way I see it is you shouldn’t get toooo caught up on Talents having purely human level capacity, I mean we have Mercer after all. No I see it the upper end of them can achieve things like comic and Manga characters that don’t include the supernatural but have clearly super human ceilings to human capacity. Like Rurouni Kenshin Greater then Godlike Speed, Yujiro Hanma’s strongest Creature on Confidence, and Mycrofts Superiors Mind. I would put this as one step above normal Talents, like when Psions become Proxies.


                                And I’m thinking for the Super Talents like Mercer they won’t be limited to Time Travel, I think that’s just his Schtick. So they will have folks who are Reality Hoppers instead of time Hoppers, or supreme probability Manipulators and supreme Skill Talents. I think for folks on Mercer’s level instead of just time manipulation, it’s more the different talents will have different ways to be unstuck from Reality or Percieve Reality. Mercer interacts with Time Differently, and someone like my proposed Mycroft would interact with probability differently, and folks like Baki/Yujiro would interact/Perceive their sense of Self differently permitting super human willpower/Confidence/Skill.

                                I’m envisioning first stage Talents having their power mistake luck and great talent, so basically always consensual magic effects for Mage terminology. But the next stage they blur this and due even more insanely “Talented” things and do some outright impossible things like Mercer’s Time Hops. But perhaps when not time hopping his super speed can be mistaken for just impossible reflexes.


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