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  • #31
    Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post
    The question, as I see, is why would anyone move to FSA to became less than a person. If think that the government or the mega corps are providing a proper quality of life to the citizens and probably for second class citizens too (otherwise they would move to Australia or South America), they can be pacified by this and some brain washing media. That’s the regular explanations to most Cyberpunk settings.
    But it’s is implied somehow that there are still people moving to FSA... it means that FSA can, not only provide some quality of live to their citizens, but also to the immigrants that see it as a good place to live before they chose to go there. The USA today, even with some anti-immigrant movements, receives a lot of people from other countries for 2 reasons, their original countries are far worse than poverty on a 1st world country and USA show itself to the world as a great place to live.

    Where are this immigrants coming from? Why would they like to move to a place where they will worth nothing? What kind of work they do in FSA that there is no robot to do? Clean pools, bathrooms, offices? Sell tacos?
    The immigrants are desperate refugees from post-apocalyptic Europe or fleeing the Norca who, since they are criminals, often persecute the innocent for sport or profit.

    As to the Mega Corps, these are unrealistic as they are pure plutocracies. Plutocracies always become oligarchies simply because money and wealth can be taken by force. The Mega Corps can be the handmaidens of power, but without a strong government of some kind, they can't enforce their will. Even the idea of corporations hiring troops means that the leaders of the crops become a sort of Dux Bellorum and recreate primitive feudalism. The FSA as it stands is an archaic anti-American screed and borders on racism as it postulates Americans as inherently inferior sub-humans.

    You can have a cyberpunk dystopia in North America, but it needs to be intelligently worked out.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Astromancer View Post

      The immigrants are desperate refugees from post-apocalyptic Europe or fleeing the Norca who, since they are criminals, often persecute the innocent for sport or profit.
      Um... What? I can't speak for 1e, but at least in 2e, while the Norça may have their roots in an ecoterrorist organization, there is nothing that says that they persecute the innocent for sport and profit...

      Comment


      • #33
        There are lots of failures on most of the different settings in Aeon. If you think UAN would happen easily, you didn’t study much of Africa, the African Nations are so different as European nations, probably even more, and Brexit is here to prove a few egos can break a functional union. The way Olympus works is just perfect for storytelling, but wird for real life. Lots of small issues on Sudamerica, mostly going around Norça and how they became so powerful. By the way Norça 2.0 is more Exoterrorists than Narcos as they were before, now it makes less sense, as where did the money came from?

        As I see, all this different ways to play were forced to be as they are to became as flexible as possible the way of playing. FSA would became a military country before turning all plutocrat, they would not need to add Canada and Mexico to their territory, they could just invade and keep them as little more than colonies, with puppet presidents and government, it would be easier to explain to UN.

        I will not talk about Norça, just because it would be off topic...

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        • #34
          Originally posted by ffanxii4ever View Post

          Um... What? I can't speak for 1e, but at least in 2e, while the Norça may have their roots in an ecoterrorist organization, there is nothing that says that they persecute the innocent for sport and profit...

          In the 1st ed. they were a mafia-like group with political pretentions.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post
            The question, as I see, is why would anyone move to FSA to became less than a person. If think that the government or the mega corps are providing a proper quality of life to the citizens and probably for second class citizens too (otherwise they would move to Australia or South America), they can be pacified by this and some brain washing media. That’s the regular explanations to most Cyberpunk settings.
            But it’s is implied somehow that there are still people moving to FSA... it means that FSA can, not only provide some quality of live to their citizens, but also to the immigrants that see it as a good place to live before they chose to go there. The USA today, even with some anti-immigrant movements, receives a lot of people from other countries for 2 reasons, their original countries are far worse than poverty on a 1st world country and USA show itself to the world as a great place to live.


            Where are this immigrants coming from? Why would they like to move to a place where they will worth nothing? What kind of work they do in FSA that there is no robot to do? Clean pools, bathrooms, offices? Sell tacos?
            Yeah usually in Dystopian Fiction there not really any other Options and most of the world is the same or just ruins. But Aeon most of ththe World is much better. It feels poorly handled the way they did it.


            It is a time for great deeds!

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            • #36
              And didn’t America have pretty damn decent Fusion tech by the time of the grain belt being corrupted? If that is the case Vertical Farming should have been able to pick up the slack before they annexed neighboring countries...


              It is a time for great deeds!

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
                And didn’t America have pretty damn decent Fusion tech by the time of the grain belt being corrupted? If that is the case Vertical Farming should have been able to pick up the slack before they annexed neighboring countries...
                Agreed. In fact wouldn't there have been a vertical agriculture infrastructure available. We are pioneers in the field. The distances involved energy requirements and other factors favor vertical agriculture in the USA.

                It's just another fail in the setting.

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                • #38
                  I mean your going to tell me they have Arcologies (or at least the beginnings of them by that time) and they still need a grain belt to not flop within the year?


                  It is a time for great deeds!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    I lean Libertarian & Classical liberal myself, but I can see how the FSA ended up the way it did. The USA lead the pack on integration of Nova’s into society which went rather badly as the instability of the Nova’s turned Abberants started to become apparent. Given the standard heavy handedness that Homeland Security (and law enforcement in general) tends to pull to respond to problems caused the situation to escalate quickly.

                    Now combine this with the standard news feed which is more interested in creating controversy and conflict to make money and preserve the status quo (in spite of pretensions otherwise). Most of the regular media does this. Now add some really pissed off Abberants who’d prefer to be left to their own devices and have rapidly grown in power. Give even just a basic few of them tactics and the ability to go after the people actually making the decisions to make there lives miserable and things will spiral fast.

                    Level a major city or two by both sides and shit gets real real fast, real no sense of humor locking things down and trying to wipe the Aberrants out. This turns out about as well as one would think. I also imagine the Abberants going after anyone making Anti-Abberant propaganda. As political ideology likely won’t mean much too them, they will hit news, entertainment, and government outlets equally to get the message makers too frightened to speak out.
                    Now add the other events we see. Wycoff in particular as that cripples food production, and when it comes to survival and prevention of food riots, the rules go out the window, and the surviving government declares martial law and rolls out the military to grab food production centers (and worrying about Abberants become a much less priority) and try to keep things stable.

                    Local stabilization is likely to be rough for a while as the various Area commands try to stabilize things so that people can eat properly. Vertical farming will be rather expensive, but needed, so that would eat into budgets needing to go elsewhere, so you would get some of that lovely dystopia vibe.

                    You also will get calls for Unity as that will be needed to get things back up and running in a sane manner. That will likely mean suppression of anything outside of the party line and rebuilding the population (The start of Totalitarianism). Anything else will be frowned on, but unless it’s an immediate threat, local commands will have better things to do. That said, anything that is perceived to threaten social stability and order is likely to get it in the back of the head with a coilgun. So Modernism & Post-modernism and it’s derivations get chucked out the window hard.

                    That means the Entertainment & News sector is going to get a visit from Homeland with explicit instructions on what they will do to help rebuild society. The few that resist won’t exist anymore, and the rest will get the message, if not comply willingly when first asked. Education at all levels will be reconfigured to what is needed to help rebuild. It’s not nice, but it is logical.

                    Now give it about 60 years, and you get the FSA.
                    Last edited by TheWanderingJewels; 02-14-2019, 05:12 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Don't forget that we've got Anima in the middle there. The book talks about a Military-Corporate Complex; but not much attention is paid to the nature of the Corporations involved. I think it would be very much in keeping with Anima if the primary Corporations featured in the Military-Corporate Complex aren't the Industrial Corporations (as is the case with current claims about a Military-Industrial Complex), but rather the Information Technology Corporations: the post-Aberrant equivalents of Google, Facebook, and Twitter. Get Corporate Management in a few companies who feel like it's their place (no, their responsibility) to craft public opinion in order to ensure a better tomorrow — without needing government coercion to prompt them — and I can easily see the world entering a phase where technological means of messing with peoples' heads get wildly out of control. As bad as the Æon-era FSA is, it may actually turn out to be an improvement over the Anima-era FSA.

                      (Which makes me wonder why everyone isn't extremely nervous about the Ministry of Noetic Affairs, since telepaths have the means of being every bit as manipulative as Anima-era hardtech was; but that's a topic for a different thread.)

                      The point is that you don't need to posit blunt coercion on the part of the Junta to get the nightmare scenario; people who seek power over others are as likely to be drawn to the upper levels of the Entertainment, Education, and Communication industries as to government agencies; and the Military might find that they've got willing partners in those sectors rather than people who need to be forced to comply.


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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by TheWanderingJewels View Post
                        I lean Libertarian & Classical liberal myself, but I can see how the FSA ended up the way it did. The USA lead the pack on integration of Nova’s into society which went rather badly as the instability of the Nova’s turned Abberants started to become apparent. Given the standard heavy handedness that Homeland Security (and law enforcement in general) tends to pull to respond to problems caused the situation to escalate quickly.

                        Now combine this with the standard news feed which is more interested in creating controversy and conflict to make money and preserve the status quo (in spite of pretensions otherwise). Most of the regular media does this. Now add some really pissed off Abberants who’d prefer to be left to their own devices and have rapidly grown in power. Give even just a basic few of them tactics and the ability to go after the people actually making the decisions to make there lives miserable and things will spiral fast.

                        Level a major city or two by both sides and shit gets real real fast, real no sense of humor locking things down and trying to wipe the Aberrants out. This turns out about as well as one would think. I also imagine the Abberants going after anyone making Anti-Abberant propaganda. As political ideology likely won’t mean much too them, they will hit news, entertainment, and government outlets equally to get the message makers too frightened to speak out.
                        Now add the other events we see. Wycoff in particular as that cripples food production, and when it comes to survival and prevention of food riots, the rules go out the window, and the surviving government declares martial law and rolls out the military to grab food production centers (and worrying about Abberants become a much less priority) and try to keep things stable.

                        Local stabilization is likely to be rough for a while as the various Area commands try to stabilize things so that people can eat properly. Vertical farming will be rather expensive, but needed, so that would eat into budgets needing to go elsewhere, so you would get some of that lovely dystopia vibe.

                        You also will get calls for Unity as that will be needed to get things back up and running in a sane manner. That will likely mean suppression of anything outside of the party line and rebuilding the population (The start of Totalitarianism). Anything else will be frowned on, but unless it’s an immediate threat, local commands will have better things to do. That said, anything that is perceived to threaten social stability and order is likely to get it in the back of the head with a coilgun. So Modernism & Post-modernism and it’s derivations get chucked out the window hard.

                        That means the Entertainment & News sector is going to get a visit from Homeland with explicit instructions on what they will do to help rebuild society. The few that resist won’t exist anymore, and the rest will get the message, if not comply willingly when first asked. Education at all levels will be reconfigured to what is needed to help rebuild. It’s not nice, but it is logical.

                        Now give it about 60 years, and you get the FSA.
                        Plus, the inevitable opposition that flares up? Immediately tagged as being in league with Aberrant by the media. Not hurt by the fact that in some cases it will be true.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by macd21 View Post

                          Plus, the inevitable opposition that flares up? Immediately tagged as being in league with Aberrant by the media. Not hurt by the fact that in some cases it will be true.
                          Indeed. If one is going for Totalitarian control, it's an effective cudgel. And if true, well so much the better because people doing the research will find you are not lying. And given that Abberants are by in large twisted mockeries of Humanity at that point, justified Xenophobia will go a long way to helping establish control.
                          Last edited by TheWanderingJewels; 02-14-2019, 11:35 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Yeah I always wondered when they would crack down on potential telepathic manipulations, especially if the Doyen are discovered.

                            And corporations, especially Megacorporations aren’t confined to one Country, so a collection of Megacorps take over North America but what the rest of the world don’t boycott them? It makes more sense in a setting where everyone is dystopian, but Aeon is a mishmash of all the Genres so I’m not sure how they handle this.


                            It is a time for great deeds!

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Honestly the FSA got hit hard not just because of all the American Novas but.. all the immigrant Novas. Brain/Nova drain is probably an issue for many countries where they flock to america to make easy money there's probably the highest percentage of Novas to norms so.. the fact that the FSA isn't full on Mad max wasteland is fairly optimstic given the timeline.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Lian View Post
                                Honestly the FSA got hit hard not just because of all the American Novas but.. all the immigrant Novas. Brain/Nova drain is probably an issue for many countries where they flock to america to make easy money there's probably the highest percentage of Novas to norms so.. the fact that the FSA isn't full on Mad max wasteland is fairly optimstic given the timeline.
                                True, USA had lots of novas that where there for money, not fighting wars like in Africa, but living there. They probably had the largest nova population in the world, a few places could have a larger nova/baseline balance, but as USA had a large population, large area and lots of money to pay.

                                China is more closed than any other country (except North Korea), so I guess many Chinese novas left and not many foreigners got in.
                                India and Indonesia have huge populations but are fairly poor and would not attract novas as USA and would repel many of their own novas for religious if not just for the money.
                                Next country in population is USA, so probably the largest nova population.
                                Last edited by Mateus Luz; 02-14-2019, 04:38 PM.

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