[Æon] Armor in Trinity and Aeon

[Crucible]

I have never seen in the main rules about if Soft Armor stacks. My players have asked the questions and there is no specific clarification. In Aeon you have Some Aptitudes that have mutiple ways to create Soft Armor, so there seems a redundancy with this, hence why we are asking for a clarification on it.

[Bunyip]

My assumption when writing the psi rules is that different sources do. I don’t know if the intention is for multiple levels of the same source to stack - like wearing a heavier armor over a lighter suit, but my intention was that if your Legions trooper absolutely can wear armored gear, overcoat it with Sheath, then wrap themselves is a nice perikinetic skin on top of that. They’ll need it when the Aberrants come.

[Mateus Luz]

I personally think it would stack, but it can became a huge problem if you are trying to attack a PK with one dot on psycho cognition. Let’s put 3 from his legion armor, +4 Perikinesis, +3 Sheath +2 from Alertness, 12 successes are a bit odd to get.

Anyway, the Critical Stunt costs 4 successes always, and there is no rules about not using it without the inflict injury stunt, so causing one injury on the target would never cost more than 4 success, a second injury, will never cost less than 4 successes.

[Bunyip]

You can’t choose Critical if you haven’t already purchased Inflict Injury. There are rules - it says Deal an additional Injury Condition to your target and you literally can’t deal ‘additional’ if you haven’t already dealt one!

[Mateus Luz]

You can’t choose Critical if you haven’t already purchased Inflict Injury. There are rules - it says Deal an additional Injury Condition to your target and you literally can’t deal ‘additional’ if you haven’t already dealt one!

Ok, that turns this “hit the Legionair” a really tricky business. This is one question that was somewhere in the forums for a while, don’t know if you answered it. Thanks.

[Crucible]

Does this stand as well for Hard Armor in regards to stacking, I can see the point of it with Soft Armor, but Hard Armor would be a bit broken?

[Mateus Luz]

Does this stand as well for Hard Armor in regards to stacking, I can see the point of it with Soft Armor, but Hard Armor would be a bit broken?

Funny, because I see it as the opposite. Soft does have a limit of how thick it can be before do more bad than good, but hard is... hard... same way as a chair or a shield would hold for a while before get out of position or get smashed somehow...

Anyway, I would put a limitation on physical pools if you have more armour you should, maybe -1 for each additional armour. But bonus from different powers would still stack, not twice from same power, but maybe from two layers of peri from different psions... still pretty tough to go thru with regular stuff...

[Mateus Luz]

I went thru the book on all references to armor I could... there is at least one that doesn’t stack, the soft armor granted by Hardened Skin (Core page 137) and any worn armor. There is legal precedence to not stack...

[Crucible]

Meh, there are abilities that stack as well (Tough Cookie Edge) so that could be debated. I guess it is one of those GM interpretations items ...lol

[MoroseMorgan]

I went thru the book on all references to armor I could... there is at least one that doesn’t stack, the soft armor granted by Hardened Skin (Core page 137) and any worn armor. There is legal precedence to not stack...

Yeah, why waste words saying something doesn't stack if that isn't the default state?

[Mateus Luz]

Yeah, why waste words saying something doesn't stack if that isn't the default state?

That’s a good point. And the power that don’t stack is for NPC, so must be more balance to not be impossible to win...

[Bunyip]

Ok, that turns this “hit the Legionair” a really tricky business. This is one question that was somewhere in the forums for a while, don’t know if you answered it. Thanks.

Feint is the key. After overcoming Defense, you pass on your additional successes to an ally (or yourself, if you’re acting alone) to set them up for a bigger and better attack. If they can’t make it happen, they pass on their successes - which probably include quite a few from you - to the next ally. And so forth.

It’s how even powerful psions take on Aberrants. Unity, working together, maneuvering the enemy into positions that are advantageous for you and difficult for them.

[Graylion]

Could someone provide a combat example of attack, defense, armor and health for just mortals/neutrals.

* Ranged weapon vs a target
* Thrown weapon vs a target
* Melee weapon vs a target

I think I have the defense but the armor is making me fuzzy. My brain is imprinted with years of VtR2 and now EX3.

Thanks and best regards

[Mateus Luz]

It’s not so different from WoD, but have some significant differences. Armor can be Soft or Hard
Soft makes it harder to hurt the target.
Hard absorve injuries before injuring the body.

Let’s go for an example
Attacker: Close combat + Might 5, using a Katana (+3 en, let’s ignore the other tags)
Target: Stamina 3 (best Resistance), using a leather jacket (soft 1) and a Flack jacket (hard 1 soft 1, ignore other tags)

Attacker roll attack 5 (9, 8, 7, 5, 3), 2 successes. Target roll Stamina 3 (9, 5, 3) 1 success, use to dodge, setting defence to 2 (1 + dodge). Attack hit
Attacker have 0 extra success +3 enhancements, total 3. To hurt the target he needs to buy Cause Injury stunt, that costs the target soft armor, in the case 1, and the attacker chooses it, lefting 2 successes he use to give him feint for next round attack, providing him 2 enhancements on next attack, as he can’t buy Critical hit (4 successes) now, but maybe next round...
Target have 4 Injury boxes + 1 from hard armor. He decides to spend his hard armor box to avoid penalities.

Storuyguide: Attacker hit Target and move to his back giving him an advantage on next attack, but the blade didn’t penetrate the jacket dip enought to hurt him. Now it’s target time to attack

I hope I was clear, it’s not complex but it’s quite different in the hurting target part. You don’t cause x damage to target, you cause 1 injury.

[Graylion]

It’s not so different from WoD, but have some significant differences. Armor can be Soft or Hard
Soft makes it harder to hurt the target.
Hard absorve injuries before injuring the body.

Let’s go for an example
Attacker: Close combat + Might 5, using a Katana (+3 en, let’s ignore the other tags)
Target: Stamina 3 (best Resistance), using a leather jacket (soft 1) and a Flack jacket (hard 1 soft 1, ignore other tags)

Attacker roll attack 5 (9, 8, 7, 5, 3), 2 successes. Target roll Stamina 3 (9, 5, 3) 1 success, use to dodge, setting defence to 2 (1 + dodge). Attack hit
Attacker have 0 extra success +3 enhancements, total 3. To hurt the target he needs to buy Cause Injury stunt, that costs the target soft armor, in the case 1, and the attacker chooses it, lefting 2 successes he use to give him feint for next round attack, providing him 2 enhancements on next attack, as he can’t buy Critical hit (4 successes) now, but maybe next round...
Target have 4 Injury boxes + 1 from hard armor. He decides to spend his hard armor box to avoid penalities.

Storuyguide: Attacker hit Target and move to his back giving him an advantage on next attack, but the blade didn’t penetrate the jacket dip enought to hurt him. Now it’s target time to attack

I hope I was clear, it’s not complex but it’s quite different in the hurting target part. You don’t cause x damage to target, you cause 1 injury.

Excellent example, thank you very much. A few more questions and clarifications based on your example.

The Attack
* I have read maybe more Trinity items then Scion but I am trying to follow both.
* On one hand they stress the dice pools not changing (except momentum) for ease of play
* On the other hand Trinity seems to blow up the ranged attacks with a different skill+attribute pairing at almost each band.
* I understand the concept that many attributes can be applied in a variety of ways
* This seems to run counter to the dice pools not changing, ease of play and character sheet real estate. Thoughts?
* As I understand the 3e weapon enhancement would not apply if no successes were rolled.

Defense and armor is the largest area I am wobbling on.
* In some sections I have seen it listed as a static number and others as a dice pool?
* I assume this is for the round, so he would roll this defense each round?
* Would he roll it each time he was attacked?
* Does it stand for the round, rolled only once?
* Does it deplete with multiple attackers?

Injury Stunts and Armor
* So the Soft Armor Tag of 1 sets the value of the Cause Damage Stunt to 1?
* So without the soft armor tag if you succeed the cause damage stunt is free?
* So the hard armor grants a Injury Box of -0?
* This would seem to represent armor taking a lot of damage very quickly, not sure how taht feels yet.
* I assume this hard armor box gets restored when you repair it, between scenes or in downtime.
* So the feint for next round provides a +2e for an ally or himself, or his choice?