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The Flash can't avoid getting shot?

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  • The Flash can't avoid getting shot?

    So just making sure I understand the mechanics right here. Defense is entirely based on your Resilience attribute. So the Flash with all his super speed and reflexes, which all would fall under Finesse in terms of Dexterity and Cunning, has no advantage in not getting punched in the face by a random drunk at the bar? Am I missing an Edge or rule here or is this the intent of the game system's mechanics? Is this just the fate of a speedster?


    https://www.youtube.com/BogMod I play a lot of videogames.

  • #2
    It kind of depends on how you build your speedster. It's not a simple as just taking Mega-Dexterity and Mega-Speed and then being impossible to hit. Though Mega-Dex and Mega-Cunning pretty much ensure you're going to notice non-powered attacked coming, and beat non-powered folks in Initiative, so you can just use Mega-Speed to be out of range for their attack.

    These mechanics, by design, rely heavily on Scale so that two speedsters of each level fighting each other have their speed ignored for the purposes of getting into a fight. It's up to the SG to decide if Scale applies to a roll, or if you can swap out Attributes based on the situation. So if you want to ask the SG to apply your Speed Scale to your Defense roll, it's a valid ask, and should probably get a yes.

    Lets not forget that there are also Quantum Powers and things like the Precise Fighting Edge to get yourself movement based Soft Armor exist too.

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    • #3
      Part of this is a non-diagetic power balance issue. “Realistically” it would be difficult for Speedsters to not drastically outclass everyone else, an issue you can regularly see Justice League comic writers bend over backwards to obscure with Flash. It’s why the recent X-Men films kept coming up with excuses to take Quicksilver off the table after his scenes that showed how easily he should solve the threat single handedly


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      • #4
        The Justice League is filled with Setting Breaking Dudes who could single handledly dominate the World. Seriously you could write Flash to just not get harmed by what he doesn't want to be harmed by and exist with having as much time as he needs relative to himself, as in he can read and learn in miliseconds.

        And it was the Zenith of trash writing how X-men Movies handled Quicksilver, he was entertaining but hollow and his powers ridiculously outclassed the rest of the setting but no one acknowledged it. Its like Bryan Singer didn't know or care who Quicksilver was and just wrote him as the Flash... uggh...

        I mean the biggest what the Eff was how the Flashpoint movie handled Thaum and a bullet... I mean really I honestly wouldn't think Bullets would work on Speedforce users who weren't asleep. I thought that kind of kinetic manipulation made it something they could always role with or ignore considering the pattering of their feet on pavement causes exponentially more force and the feel of a bullet on their skin would be like someone slow motion pressing a tac on their body.


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        • #5
          I am fine with them moving away from the god stat that Dex generally ends up being in games like these. It just is such a departure from the games usually that it feels weird and in some ways feels like I must have read the rules wrong.


          https://www.youtube.com/BogMod I play a lot of videogames.

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          • #6
            I;m fine with base Mega-Dex not automatically providing a bonus to Defense but at the same time I think something should, be it a Mega-Edge with dots or a power or something. That also said if base Mega-Dex did automatically provide for Defense all it means is that at some low point baselines are unable to strike Novas - which make sense and is logical. That said, remember, when someone also has Mega-Dex or some other stat that makes them think or move fast (so Mega-Cunning maybe as well) then the two ratings cancel each other out.

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            • #7
              Mega Speed will unquestionably apply Scale to Defense if the Flash is running. The capacity to dodge while not running may be questionable. I posted in the errata asking for something about it.

              I guess as Mega Dex added to defence automatically on 1e, they counted it as granted and didn’t bother to add it later. We may see some actions in this direction later (at least some explanation about).

              Let’s hope for the best and keep the Mega Speed as the standard super dodge (in the end it requires 2 dots per scale, anyway).

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
                The Justice League is filled with Setting Breaking Dudes who could single handledly dominate the World.
                My point though is that logically Speedster > anything that isn’t speedster if you think about that powerset for half a second. The idea that any of the non-speedsters in Flash’s Rogues Gallery are even momentarily difficult for him to deal with is ridiculous. The idea that any non-speedster threat the Justice League faces isn’t automatically defeated by Flash alone before any of the others but Superman even know it’s there is absurd. Speedsters WILDLY outclass everything else imaginable if you don’t bend over backwards to ignore what they’re capable of - hence writers having to bend over backward to ignore what they’re capable of.


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                • #9
                  The "powerset" is pretty variable though. Something plenty of games, and I don't think Aberrant 2e is any different, is that you don't get that much default to super-speed besides moving from point A to point B really fast, getting more of the crazy tricks that could derive from that base ability is accomplished by buying more powers that layer on it.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post

                    My point though is that logically Speedster > anything that isn’t speedster if you think about that powerset for half a second. The idea that any of the non-speedsters in Flash’s Rogues Gallery are even momentarily difficult for him to deal with is ridiculous. The idea that any non-speedster threat the Justice League faces isn’t automatically defeated by Flash alone before any of the others but Superman even know it’s there is absurd. Speedsters WILDLY outclass everything else imaginable if you don’t bend over backwards to ignore what they’re capable of - hence writers having to bend over backward to ignore what they’re capable of.
                    Yeah this is literally why I can't take the Justice League Seriously. If Flash can have Pico and Femto second reactions and master architecture by reading a section of a library in time and repairing a building how are any of Lex Luthor's plans an issue or Grog's. He has literally single-handedly evacuated cities quicker then explosions. I just can't take Justice League seriously with all their world breaking powersets.


                    It is a time for great deeds!

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                    • #11
                      That’s why I am changing my mind about the Mega-Speed granting defence enhancements. I do think there should be a Mega-Edge that grant it, maybe a dot per enhancement and the max must be no larger than the highest between MDex or MCun. But Mega Speed alone cant give a bonus by itself when not running, mega Speed is equivalent to old Hyper Movement, not the old Mega Dex by itself.

                      Edit: just after writing, I remembered the Quantum Deflection, that can be used to that end, just change the fluff and you have a Mega Dodge power... maybe that’s what we are missing.
                      Last edited by Mateus Luz; 08-17-2019, 12:14 AM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post
                        That’s why I am changing my mind about the Mega-Speed granting defence enhancements. I do think there should be a Mega-Edge that grant it, maybe a dot per enhancement and the max must be no larger than the highest between MDex or MCun. But Mega Speed alone cant give a bonus by itself when not running, mega Speed is equivalent to old Hyper Movement, not the old Mega Dex by itself.

                        Edit: just after writing, I remembered the Quantum Deflection, that can be used to that end, just change the fluff and you have a Mega Dodge power... maybe that’s what we are missing.

                        While I agree that "get's Dramatic Scale Equal to Mega-Speed while running" makes sense, there isn't a rule for it anywhere, other than golden rule. Even then, how is that arbitrated? Do you have to have moved at least 2 rangebands on your turn and not take cover?

                        Also, Dramatic Scale on defense is kinda stronk. Even if you aren't at the 3 up untouchable mark, 4 enhancement on Defense is really strong as that is probably an easy Roll Away, which is why I like your suggestion of only getting your Scale difference in Enhancement, so instead of getting 4 for being 2 up, you just get 2 enhancement.

                        I'm on the fence about needing to buy Deflection or Phase (although you might want that for itself) on top of Mega-Dex and Mega-Speed to get a speedy dodge. I do in general like how mega-attributes were broken down in what they can do, and needing to buy MEdges to expand on that, but having to dip into a Quantum power behind Mega-Speed gives me pause.


                        Tangentially Related: Just realized Mega-Cunning doesn't effect Cunning for the purposes of Roll Away.


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                        • #13
                          In 1st edition I used Quantum Deflection, from the Teragen book if I remember correctly, to replicated someone fast enough to catch bullets or even justnredirect them without them loosing their momentum. So I do think that as a valid space for Speedsters superspeed defense.

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                          • #14
                            I don't understand the nature of not applying one's Mega-Attribute dots in scale to all normal uses of an Attribute. To me if you have Mega-Dexterity 3 then everything that has Dexterity in dice pool (or Mega-Cunning for Cunning or Mega-Stamina for Stamina or Mega-Resolve for Resolve, etc) should get boosted by the dot in scale. Whether this boost comes natural or through the necessary purchase of an applicable Mega-Edge I don't care, but it should still occur.

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                            • #15
                              I'm not sure how that really addresses the point though. The issue is that 2e moved Defense from a Dexterity thing, to a Stamina/Resilience thing, while both reaction time and movement speed are still (not exclusively) a Dexterity thing.

                              You can apply Mega-Dex to all Dex based stuff as hard as you want... but it doesn't boost your Defense roll. That's the disconnect for the speedster type of character who is traditionally really hard to hit because they can move so fast. Almost everything one considers the standard speedster stuff is in Finesse with Dexterity and Cunning, but the 'not getting hit because you can just move that fast' part isn't.

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