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The Flash can't avoid getting shot?

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  • BogMod
    started a topic The Flash can't avoid getting shot?

    The Flash can't avoid getting shot?

    So just making sure I understand the mechanics right here. Defense is entirely based on your Resilience attribute. So the Flash with all his super speed and reflexes, which all would fall under Finesse in terms of Dexterity and Cunning, has no advantage in not getting punched in the face by a random drunk at the bar? Am I missing an Edge or rule here or is this the intent of the game system's mechanics? Is this just the fate of a speedster?

  • MoroseMorgan
    replied
    Originally posted by LordHeru View Post

    Technically these aren't official rules yet. I say this as they haven't been put into the file we have.

    Now, that said, I also read the posts where it seems they will become official rules. So yeah, taking into consideration them is probably a good idea. hehe

    Which to me is a bit sad and something I am going to house rule the moment I can. Mega Edges should be allowed as Techniques in thematically linked Powers and the limit to Techniques equal Quantum is tooooo limiting to me and so I am going to change said number.

    Conceptually I understand the issue, but mechanically, how would that even work? Not all MEdges are multi-dot, unlike powers, and don't have tags. It would need a completely different cost saving framework. Mega Speed is 1 dot, so how would you even buy it as part of a power suite?

    I could maybe see it allowing you to buy Dots + purchased tags worth of MEdges that count as part of the suite, but there isn't any way to have a drawback for some of the MEdges since they don't have an active part to be a mixed action like Powers do.

    It seems like more of a symbolic issue.

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  • LordHeru
    replied
    Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post

    ...
    First no techniques can use Mega Edges, so mega speed is out, you need deflection and phasing for example.
    ...
    You are limited to 1 additional technique per quantum (so you will need more quantum to be more versatile).
    Technically these aren't official rules yet. I say this as they haven't been put into the file we have.

    Now, that said, I also read the posts where it seems they will become official rules. So yeah, taking into consideration them is probably a good idea. hehe

    Which to me is a bit sad and something I am going to house rule the moment I can. Mega Edges should be allowed as Techniques in thematically linked Powers and the limit to Techniques equal Quantum is tooooo limiting to me and so I am going to change said number.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mateus Luz
    replied
    Originally posted by grimstav View Post
    Another way to make bullet dodge, super speed, and "Flash time" all fit into a starting 2e Speedster is to put the Quantum Deflection, Phasing and Mega-Speed into a "Speedster" power suite using techniques. Following the the other forums, and the example of elemental powers, this gives all the abilities at a discount. It also simulates the duality by making you choose running fast, plucking bullets out of the air, or vibrating through a wall.

    As your hero progresses you can separate the powers or add tags to allow more outlandish feats. like phasing a 747 through a skyscraper and rotating your hands at the shoulder to make an air cushion to land it on. Just stealing a The Flash example.
    Indeed a good suit, but you don’t need to break it into separate powers, because you can use them at the same time. There is 3 on techniques.
    First no techniques can use Mega Edges, so mega speed is out, you need deflection and phasing for example.
    Second, it’s a power, so it can be dissipated, copies or stole as a single power (it makes sense)
    You are limited to 1 additional technique per quantum (so you will need more quantum to be more versatile).

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  • grimstav
    replied
    Another way to make bullet dodge, super speed, and "Flash time" all fit into a starting 2e Speedster is to put the Quantum Deflection, Phasing and Mega-Speed into a "Speedster" power suite using techniques. Following the the other forums, and the example of elemental powers, this gives all the abilities at a discount. It also simulates the duality by making you choose running fast, plucking bullets out of the air, or vibrating through a wall.

    As your hero progresses you can separate the powers or add tags to allow more outlandish feats. like phasing a 747 through a skyscraper and rotating your hands at the shoulder to make an air cushion to land it on. Just stealing a The Flash example.

    Leave a comment:


  • MoroseMorgan
    replied
    Excellent point on it being Mega-Speed, not Mega-Acceleration. Maybe some sort of sprint check, similar to page 81 of the Core, when you start and maybe to stop from full speed.

    Going from 0 to bullet-time is almost closer to a Restricted tagged Teleport.

    I'm re-examining all of my assumptions. I may not have critically read the powers at play here just saw "Mega-Speed" and immediately assumed "Buy This and it will be exactly like The Flash" (didn't help that I am currently watching the most recent season on Netflix).
    Last edited by MoroseMorgan; 08-19-2019, 01:39 PM.

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  • Mateus Luz
    replied
    I would say a uncontrolled power on mega speed and similars is not a big deal for game but for sure is a issue for the mental health.

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  • Heavy Arms
    replied
    It's doable in a sense; though the Flash and Quicksilver in various incarnations do in fact have mental health issues from existing in a different frame of reference from everyone else.

    In TC terms, I think focusing on making specific applications of Mega-Dex, Mega-Cunning, and Mega-Speed expressions via Quantum Powers handles this approach the best.

    Leave a comment:


  • Firanai
    replied
    Another option to the speedster is too powerful problem is this: He has to consciously activate his state of superspeed. Here's my reasoning, speedsters would go insane if they were constantly in super speed mode, they would be trapped in a slow hell forever waiting for everyone else. So they have two modes of existence, one regular with all the limitations of a normal person and a state of superspeed. The key here is that in the normal state his mind and perception works at the same speed as everyone else, they can only think and react in nanoseconds once they are in superspeed mode. Sure, once they start running they're unbeatable, but the rest of the time? They're as vulnerable as everyone else.
    Last edited by Firanai; 08-19-2019, 03:10 PM.

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  • glamourweaver
    replied
    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    Yeah this is literally why I can't take the Justice League Seriously. If Flash can have Pico and Femto second reactions and master architecture by reading a section of a library in time and repairing a building how are any of Lex Luthor's plans an issue or Grog's. He has literally single-handedly evacuated cities quicker then explosions. I just can't take Justice League seriously with all their world breaking powersets.
    One idea I had if I were to write a comic series with a speedster to try and make it more balanced, is play up the need to BUILD speed. They can’t just go from zero to everyone else is frozen in time in a snap of a finger, they have to move for a while getting faster and faster to reach that point and things can stop them before they reach that. The speedster just launching at a run from stop is more like a car in speed at first.

    That would be an interesting system to play with in an rpg as you’d play up a character getting more powerful as they build momentum using their powers - but probably too complicated to try and introduce into Aberrant. But i’ll Play with it and see if anything ends up working really well.

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  • Heavy Arms
    replied
    I'm not sure how that really addresses the point though. The issue is that 2e moved Defense from a Dexterity thing, to a Stamina/Resilience thing, while both reaction time and movement speed are still (not exclusively) a Dexterity thing.

    You can apply Mega-Dex to all Dex based stuff as hard as you want... but it doesn't boost your Defense roll. That's the disconnect for the speedster type of character who is traditionally really hard to hit because they can move so fast. Almost everything one considers the standard speedster stuff is in Finesse with Dexterity and Cunning, but the 'not getting hit because you can just move that fast' part isn't.

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  • LordHeru
    replied
    I don't understand the nature of not applying one's Mega-Attribute dots in scale to all normal uses of an Attribute. To me if you have Mega-Dexterity 3 then everything that has Dexterity in dice pool (or Mega-Cunning for Cunning or Mega-Stamina for Stamina or Mega-Resolve for Resolve, etc) should get boosted by the dot in scale. Whether this boost comes natural or through the necessary purchase of an applicable Mega-Edge I don't care, but it should still occur.

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  • Possessed
    replied
    In 1st edition I used Quantum Deflection, from the Teragen book if I remember correctly, to replicated someone fast enough to catch bullets or even justnredirect them without them loosing their momentum. So I do think that as a valid space for Speedsters superspeed defense.

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  • MoroseMorgan
    replied
    Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post
    That’s why I am changing my mind about the Mega-Speed granting defence enhancements. I do think there should be a Mega-Edge that grant it, maybe a dot per enhancement and the max must be no larger than the highest between MDex or MCun. But Mega Speed alone cant give a bonus by itself when not running, mega Speed is equivalent to old Hyper Movement, not the old Mega Dex by itself.

    Edit: just after writing, I remembered the Quantum Deflection, that can be used to that end, just change the fluff and you have a Mega Dodge power... maybe that’s what we are missing.

    While I agree that "get's Dramatic Scale Equal to Mega-Speed while running" makes sense, there isn't a rule for it anywhere, other than golden rule. Even then, how is that arbitrated? Do you have to have moved at least 2 rangebands on your turn and not take cover?

    Also, Dramatic Scale on defense is kinda stronk. Even if you aren't at the 3 up untouchable mark, 4 enhancement on Defense is really strong as that is probably an easy Roll Away, which is why I like your suggestion of only getting your Scale difference in Enhancement, so instead of getting 4 for being 2 up, you just get 2 enhancement.

    I'm on the fence about needing to buy Deflection or Phase (although you might want that for itself) on top of Mega-Dex and Mega-Speed to get a speedy dodge. I do in general like how mega-attributes were broken down in what they can do, and needing to buy MEdges to expand on that, but having to dip into a Quantum power behind Mega-Speed gives me pause.


    Tangentially Related: Just realized Mega-Cunning doesn't effect Cunning for the purposes of Roll Away.

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  • Mateus Luz
    replied
    That’s why I am changing my mind about the Mega-Speed granting defence enhancements. I do think there should be a Mega-Edge that grant it, maybe a dot per enhancement and the max must be no larger than the highest between MDex or MCun. But Mega Speed alone cant give a bonus by itself when not running, mega Speed is equivalent to old Hyper Movement, not the old Mega Dex by itself.

    Edit: just after writing, I remembered the Quantum Deflection, that can be used to that end, just change the fluff and you have a Mega Dodge power... maybe that’s what we are missing.
    Last edited by Mateus Luz; 08-17-2019, 12:14 AM.

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